Help, my vassals are no longer paying their taxes!

[Fitzjacob]

I'm playing as a Cypriot merchant republic (867 start: Viking -> Famagusta -> Catholic -> k_Cyprus -> Republic) and things have been going fairly well. But the year is now 1278 and a while back I noticed a sudden income drop. Thinking it had to do with retinue reinforcements I paid it no mind, but when things didn't change I finally got around to checking my standing armies which (of course) were fully reinforced. So I opened up the realm screen to get a proper view on the economy and noticed that I had no tax income at all (neither feudal, city nor church tax).

My first thought was that my vassals were simply so annoyed with me that they simply refused to pay up. This didn't turn out to be the case. In fact, when I looked under the vassals tab on my character screen they all claimed to be paying. Some were cranky and paid a bit less than they were supposed to; others, like Mayor Yngvar, are paying the full (50 %) amount.

But when clicking on the City of Pozzuoli, Yngvar's demesne, I notice that he's completely free from expenses, and the same proves true for every other vassal (including the patricians) who are all hoarding their coins.

This is not working as intended, is it? While I suppose I could live on my current income, it's not very dignified for a doge to tighten his belt. And my Cyprus is not meant to be a tax haven!

 

[Fitzjacob]

Here's what I've tried to fix it so far:

- restart the game
- change vassal obligation laws
- create new vassals (built a new holding and gave it away)
- release vassals and reconquer them

As I don't know exactly when it occurred, it's difficult to come up with ideas as to what might be causing it. Succession *could* be a reason but my current Prince Mayor had been running things for quite a while when I first noticed the income drop, so I very much doubt it.

Please help.

 

[Hopit]

You're over the demesne limit

 

[Sirrobert1]

You're over the demesne limit

50% over the limit. That's pretty big.

 

[Sunspawn]

Demesne limit has nothing to do with vassal tax.

 

[beartjah]

You're over the demesne limit

IIRC, demesne limit only influences your own holdings. income from tax isn't influenced directly by demesne limit, only if the opinion penalty makes the vassals grumpy enough to stop paying taxes, but that's apparantly not the prolbme here.

 

[Fitzjacob]

50% over the limit. That's pretty big.

Indeed. I suffered an 89 % demesne income penalty because of it.

Demesne limit has nothing to do with vassal tax.

IIRC, demesne limit only influences your own holdings. income from tax isn't influenced directly by demesne limit, only if the opinion penalty makes the vassals grumpy enough to stop paying taxes, but that's apparantly not the prolbme here.

This was my thought, too. Oversized demesne indirectly affects the tax income due to lowering your vassals' opinion of you, but doesn't do anything directly. However...

You're over the demesne limit

This turned out to indeed be the cause! Upon giving away three counties and waiting a month my vassal income suddenly reappeared.

As far as I know the game doesn't inform you of this. Hovering over the demesne entry you can clearly see the effects of my oversized demesne but no such entry can be found over church- and city tax. It seems that it's an all or nothing deal with taxes; if you're to far beyond your demesne limit (and 50 % is pretty far) taxation is removed all together. They should at least keep the entries showing 0 with a "Too far beyond demesne limit: -100%" at the bottom.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the help and thank you Hopit for the solution. Do you know exactly how far beyond your demesne you can be before your vassals unceremoniously stop paying up?

 

[Sirrobert1]

1000 demesne income. And as a Feudal lord, I thought that 200 was a lot.

 

[Fitzjacob]

Yeah, republics are pretty insane it turns out. After all, I had a 89 % income penalty and no tax income at all and was still making a decent profit.

 

[Hopit]

The demesne limit isn't percentage based, but purely by the amount (if I remember correctly).. The limit maluses cap out after 4 or 5 over the limit, so I think 3 should be enough?.
I take it you don't care much about your levies or everyone hating your guts?

 

[Fitzjacob]

I take it you don't care much about your levies or everyone hating your guts?

Not really, no. I can handle -50 opinion and my retinues more than make up for the loss of levies.

The demesne limit isn't percentage based, but purely by the amount (if I remember correctly).. The limit maluses cap out after 4 or 5 over the limit, so I think 3 should be enough?.

At 5 over the limit I was, as stated above, at a 89 % demesne income penalty and that seems to be a strange figure for a cap. But you're probably right, 3 or above seems to be where the tax cuts take place.

 

[thevmag]

1000 demesne income. And as a Feudal lord, I thought that 200 was a lot.

Nice demesne, weak taxes though. My feudal realm would have him beat, but his biggest advantage is in trade income.

Spoiler

When you end up wealthier than a player merchant republic

 

[Sunspawn]

Nice demesne, weak taxes though. My feudal realm would have him beat, but his biggest advantage is in trade income.

Spoiler

When you end up wealthier than a player merchant republic

Except his realm size is less than 1/8 of yours. If he had even 1/4 of yours, he'd probably have over 3k yearly income.

 

[thevmag]

Except his realm size is less than 1/8 of yours. If he had even 1/4 of yours, he'd probably have over 3k yearly income.

It's not even a massive realm. As far as empires go, this is one of my smallest. That realm count is inflated by virtue of building cities in all available holdings

 

[Sunspawn]

It's not even a massive realm. As far as empires go, this is one of my smallest. That realm count is inflated by virtue of building cities in all available holdings

I was talking about realm size, which is the number of holdings in your realm. It is the number to the right of vassal number/limit. So yes, compared to his, it was a massive realm. I honestly do not get your point.