Help me understand, why bother with transcendence?

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Ek1

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Psionic's and psychic powers has been my cup of tea in games since 93 but in Stellaris no matter how I turn the rule books around, it is by far the worst thing to get. :(

Compared to other ascension paths it is highly random to get it, later to utilize and the benefits from it are highly resource depend (all items except jump drive need Zro) that the Ascension does not even reveal. Gene's and Robo's get stronger ground troops, mostly better citizens and leaders, more resources and they are reliable.

So am I just missing something or playing wrong or are psi's just a gimp path that would need some love? o_O
 

The Boz

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IMO Psy is currently the strongest of the three. Requires fewer APs, gives *strong* (but random, true) bonuses, and does not require multi-year projects to update your species. Random chance to get it, and Zro, are problems, sure.
 
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fodazd

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I also think that psi-ascension is currently the strongest. Synth-ascension got nerfed really, *really* hard by needing robot assembly workers and by no longer being able to custom-build a specialized subspecies of synth for each job. Bio-ascension is still good, but the stuff you get from psi-ascension is better in my opinion.

...Yes, you are right that psi-ascension is still pretty random, and that you are pretty much screwed right now if you don't find zro, but I hope the zro-issue will be fixed eventually.
 
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#Tukuro

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Psy is cheap. You can even go as far as mostly ignoring research, and just focusing on unity.
It's very hit & miss. But if you do it right you can pull a psy ascension by the mid 2200s - long before anyone has gotten synth or bio ascension done....
If you then roll psy shields early and find zro, it's a game changer... Sadly of course that rarely happens...

You can also use it to switch out of locked civics (Life Seeded, Fanatic Purifier, Inwards Perfection, Barbaric Despoiler, etc.) as long as you're not running imperial authority. If your any leader is the Chosen One you will be eligible for an event (utopia.3400) with a MTTH of ~10 years. If you then accept, your authority will change to imperial authority, and your civics will be overridden.
It also changes your ethos to fanatic authoritarian and spiritualist.
This synergizes well with non-Purifier starts because of genocide opinion penalties...

EDIT: The Chosen one doesn't need to be the ruler, it can be any leader...
 
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Less2

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I like Psi. Lots of bonuses, completely free after you research the tech. I like Bio, -20% to housing costs and Erudite is pretty awesome too. Synth Ascension definitely feels underwhelming.
 
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Secret Master

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The RNG nature of transcendence is both its greatest strength and greatest weakness. If you choose this route, you are basically hoping RNGesus will give you the boost you need to go over the top and defeat everyone else.

I think it's a fun option, but it's not for everyone due to the gambling nature of it.
 
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Ek1

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Okey so I am not imagining stuff and the path is lot on dice. :eek:
IMO Psy is currently the strongest of the three. Requires fewer APs, gives *strong* (but random, true) bonuses, and does not require multi-year projects to update your species. Random chance to get it, and Zro, are problems, sure.
Each of them needs two APs and no more, no less? Psi also essentially needs Spiritualist ethics while other ascensions don't care what you are.
True, Psi's don't need to have the modification projects but then again neither can they adapt as well as the two other ascension paths.

In my current game its 2425, I have access to 60% of galaxy and no one, nowhere has Zro. o_O So I am grateful for the +5% happiness, +10% research, +10% energy from jobs, the jump drive and +5% unity but hey I had researched Psi shields when others were dreaming of advanced shields and while everyone is now using hyper shields I still can't use my psi shields because of no Zro.

Now when I have been reading the list of bonuses I am noticing that I am just missing the shields. As they are best in slot it is just rubbing at my face all the time and rest of the power is still there. And I so miss the park-battleship-in-orbit-and-conquer-planet-by-mind-control trick from Master of Orion.
 

Azuraal

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You can also use it to switch out of locked civics (Life Seeded, Fanatic Purifier, Inwards Perfection, Barbaric Despoiler, etc.) as long as you're not running imperial authority. If your leader is the Chosen One you will be eligible for an event (utopia.3400) with a MTTH of ~10 years. If you then accept, your authority will change to imperial authority, and your civics will be overridden.
I think they patched it so that events can't overwrite locked civics.

In my current game its 2425, I have access to 60% of galaxy and no one, nowhere has Zro. o_O
I suspect it's just bugged.
 

The Boz

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Psi's don't need to have the modification projects but then again neither can they adapt as well as the two other ascension paths.
Psi has access to modification, can adapt freely.

In my current game its 2425, I have access to 60% of galaxy and no one, nowhere has Zro.
L-cluster?

o_O So I am grateful for the +5% happiness, +10% research, +10% energy from jobs, the jump drive and +5% unity but hey I had researched Psi shields when others were dreaming of advanced shields and while everyone is now using hyper shields I still can't use my psi shields because of no Zro.
While I do hope they rectify this... can you imagine the steamroll of fleet-wide psi shields while the universe is on deflector tech?

Now when I have been reading the list of bonuses I am noticing that I am just missing the shields. As they are best in slot it is just rubbing at my face all the time and rest of the power is still there. And I so miss the park-battleship-in-orbit-and-conquer-planet-by-mind-control trick from Master of Orion.
Colossus.
 
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Ricordis

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There should be a psionic tech to research which gives you the option to generate Zro through a building. Maybe an upgraded version of the Psi Corps or even a completely new building needing a specialist to generate Zro. But currentl it is simply too random to be a resource only psionic empires really need to benefit from their psionic tendencies.
(Also I want my other Psi techs back)
 

Cry_Havok

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Psi has amazing leaders, the shroud is a bonus, but you could never even use the shroud and still have the best leaders, and don't have to drown in special projects. And with Rackets it's easier than ever to get psi tech, since if you get some racket pops you then have a much higher chance of grabbing psi theory.
 
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Red-XIII

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So am I just missing something or playing wrong or are psi's just a gimp path that would need some love? o_O
Has been a gimp path for as long as I've known stellaris (which is from lunch till utopia and nowadays, don't see anything in patch logs to indicate that it's ever been better either). Even when it wasn't about ascension, and just about "spiritualism for psi VS materialism for synthetics" it was the weaker option. Almost nothing about that (about psionics) changed for the better since then.

By pure coincidence, no doubt, it's now not quite as sucky as it used to be. Maybe even slightly superior. Not because of how "great" the benefits in general are, but primarily because synthetics stopped being so freakishly overpowered, and fleet mobility has been bound and gaged so much that the advantage of psi jump drive over normal jump drive became more of a factor.

Psi has amazing leaders...
Synthetic leaders are immortal. Things don't get more amazing than that. True, there are some good bonuses (screw you, Latin grammar nazis) on psi perks, but compared to being able to keep your best leaders virtually forever it doesn't quite shine.

Even if you are ok with mortal leaders (venerable build user?) carefully hand-picked (keep the best, cycle the rest) leaders aren't far behind. Meanwhile in many other respects psi IS far behind the alternative. *sigh* I miss the days where I could build a high min level leader pool, forget the f-ing lifespan and just rotate my pack of leaders as I see fit.

And keep in mind that with the recent qq about how robots/droids/synths no longer give crazy fast population advantage combined with extra efficiency, like they unreasonably used to for so freaking long, it's quite likely that PI will cave in and buff them back up to the point where spiritualism, along with it's psi path, is a bad joke again.

Seriously, I FINALLY can forgive my min-maxing self for NOT going materialists + robotics, and subsequently can actually not go materialists + robotics. Don't make me lose that option again, tyvm.

I wish PI and stellaris players in general started to get a clearer picture of ethics balance. If there's an ethic that's supposed NOT to use something it should have an alternative to that something that's competitive. In other words you can't make slavery much stronger than whatever it is that xenophilia/liberalism (or any government set that doesn't include the option for slavery, really) give you. Same with robotics, it shouldn't be much stronger than whatever spiritualists get in return for not being able to use it.

THANKFULLY we have bio ascension which means you aren't screwed just cus you can't go cyber, but the rest of the materialist vs spiritualist balance is a joke. Well, used to be anyway, it's quite possible some of my ideas are not up to date with modern stellaris.
 

Blodo

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Zro doesn't seem to spawn unless you get an event for it during exploration. The problem is I don't think you can get this event unless you researched the Zro extraction tech, which you can only get once you've started unlocking mind over matter techs at least. That's pretty late in the game for anyone to find any unexplored systems to survey.

I got lucky my last game where I was playing as a xenophile spiritualist though. Xenophiles get the option to make space monsters neutral to you, so I had a couple of systems (some on border with AI) that had space amoeba in them that nobody ever cleared out. Once I got the Zro extraction tech I sent a science ship into that system and I got an event on the gas giant there giving it a Zro deposit. So there you go, one gamey "workaround" for Zro is keep a system with a gas giant and space monsters in it unexplored and untouched until you get the Zro techs, and then pray to rng jesus.
 

Cry_Havok

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Yes, immortal leaders are great and all, but Psionic leaders are just BETTER than machine ones, particularly admirals and scientists. Psi pops are really nice as well. Mortal pops aren't bad when they have the fantastic boni that psi leaders do. Plus you can get synths on the tech tree, without having to give up orgainic pops.
 
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Red-XIII

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Mortal pops aren't...
WAITWUT? Mortal Pops? Aren't all pops immortal? To the best of my knowledge only species leaders have limited lifespan, species pops don't.

The closest to possible and reasonable method to combine Psi path with robotics is on an empire that's neither materialistic nor spiritualistic.
I like the idea myself so I've tired that MANY times, and most times it just doesn't happen on time. It's a good idea on paper and a good joke in practice. Oh, hey I just got psi jump, shame I don't have the time to upgrade right now, maybe later, when I'm in not in the middle of consuming a fallen empire.

Psionic theory is f-ing rare, to get it while it's still early enough to matter you'd REALLY want the weight bonus from Spirifans (on top of whatever else you can get such as maniacal researcher and whatnot). However having robots under a spiritualistic government is detrimental.

That aside, just having synthetics in your pack of species is not enough (imho) to make full use of them as leaders.
Maybe that's just me but I don't like it when half my leader recruitment pool is of the species I don't want to lead.
And there's only ONE species that can never ever stop producing leaders - it's your starting species. Everyone else you can (and if you are running any leadership relevant species, as your main, then also should) ban from generating leaders, but your mains will ALWAYS take their share of that pool.

Which btw is IMHO the only reason to ever go for synthetic evolution. If not for that I'd always stick to bio and just build robots alongside them without killing off my main species.
 

Hibernus

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Zro doesn't seem to spawn unless you get an event for it during exploration. The problem is I don't think you can get this event unless you researched the Zro extraction tech, which you can only get once you've started unlocking mind over matter techs at least. That's pretty late in the game for anyone to find any unexplored systems to survey.

I got lucky my last game where I was playing as a xenophile spiritualist though. Xenophiles get the option to make space monsters neutral to you, so I had a couple of systems (some on border with AI) that had space amoeba in them that nobody ever cleared out. Once I got the Zro extraction tech I sent a science ship into that system and I got an event on the gas giant there giving it a Zro deposit. So there you go, one gamey "workaround" for Zro is keep a system with a gas giant and space monsters in it unexplored and untouched until you get the Zro techs, and then pray to rng jesus.
This would align with the last game I played on medium with gateways and wormholes disabled, one corner of the map was unexplored by everyone as the sole chokepoint in was blocked by a giant amoeba stack, so I didn't survey it until I had Zro distillation.

Sure enough, one anomaly later and it contained the only system on the entire map with Zro.
 

Gaiyamato

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Psionics have always been fully OP. The new resource limits nerfed psionic ship components to death though.

My dominant MP game strat was to start as democratic Fanatic Purifiers with Spiritualist, Fan. Xenophobic, then push for Psionics, use the event to flip to a normal empire, switch to Feudalism civic from the Philosophy one, and then force-vassalize-annex the rest of the galaxy.
+ pop happiness
+ science output
+ energy

Also unity and influence boosts. Now Stability and Crime boosts as well.

Immortal leader, amazing ship components that cannot be beaten in the game, events that can further boost you (you can get another 15% science bonus).

The Psicorps building used to be great, still fairly useful.

Psionic Marines are amazing. Especially if you can boost their health up a bit.

The most crazy combo in the game is to get Brain Slugs, Full Psionics and the Horizon Loop event at once.

EDIT: I have been getting Zro every game, but only 1-2 deposits. So no where near enough to use for ships in the new system.

You can buy Zro though once you unlock it. So if your energy output is high enough you can maintain a huge fleet of ships decked out with psionic shields and jump drives.
 
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