Kid Charlemagne said:
The annexation of the german minors results in BB, for some reason..., as does Sleswig war, but I usually end up with no more than 15 BB, and about 50 divisions to disencourage anyone from BB wars
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The annexation of the german minors results in BB, for some reason..., as does Sleswig war, but I usually end up with no more than 15 BB, and about 50 divisions to disencourage anyone from BB wars
The AI of UK or any great power is too stubborn to make a peace even you got a high warscore. You have to occupy her capital and killed most of her armies and navies such that your number of divsions is a little larger than hers.
Yeah, my first war against the British was mainly to grab those claims in British Columbia. After that, wars are Atlantic slugging matches until the Marines descend on England.Kid Charlemagne said:
Although there is an event that fires when the USA controls all of Quebec and Ontario before Canada gains independence, where the USA chooses between annexing Canada or releasing Canada and Quebec. These trigger UK events where the UK can accept or refuse and get -100 relations with France, Austria, Russia, and Prussia and be forced to leave alliances. Acceptance is the A choice, so it can be useful to consider.
Edit: I'm using Southern Revolutions and OHGamer's hotfixes, pretty sure it's not vanilla. See below post as well.
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In VIP if you go to war with the UK, if you beat Canadia in a peace and at least get a white peace with the UK then you get the option to vassalize Canadia, annex it outright, or leave it as it is.
Of course, because its a bitch to get anything out of the UK, I have to cheat to get the peace...hey, by then I usually hold pretty much all their colonies. Its my liberty.
Of course, because its a bitch to get anything out of the UK, I have to cheat to get the peace...hey, by then I usually hold pretty much all their colonies. Its my liberty.
Kid Charlemagne said:Hello all. I've been playing a lot of different nations recently (Belgium, Netherlands, Uruguay, Austria, Sweden/Scandinavia, currently Ottomans), and while I've been having a blast, I've noticed one recurring trend in all of these games - a simpering, sniveling fear and respect for the mighty colossus that is the United Kingdom. Which leads me to my current question for you...
Which nation (V:R, with latest hotfix) is best positioned to overcome the power of the UK in a 1836 GC without overly gamey exploits? I want to be able to fight them, and beat them, several times before the end of the GC, sinking their fleet, grabbing their colonies, and perhaps even occupying the home islands. Obviuosly, I'm going to need a lot of money, manpower, and tech (and some luck) to pull this off.
My guesses would be Russia, Prussia/Germany, USA, or Austria, but I'm still improving my strategy and tactics from game to game, so I'm not sure exactly who is the best candidate, and what would be a good strategy to accomplish my goals. Of course, if I wanted to be gamey, I could take Russia, promote that admiral that gets +7 fire, and destroy the British fleet in 1836 (I saw this suggestion in an earlier thread here), but I'm looking to avoid overt gamey-ness.
If there is no way of reliably doing it without being gamey, then please let me know that, as well. No use beating my head against a wall for no good reason.
My apologies if this has been covered before, but I couldn't really search for "UK" on this forum, as it's too short of a phrase.
Thanks in advance for all helpful suggestions!
Dude, just play as the green blob, and research a bunch of army techs from the start of the game. Go crush the Ottomans prior to 1850, become Tsar of all Slavs, and then dare the British to invade you. Draw them into your territory where they'll take lots of high attrition. Encircle and destroy their armies. Then when the time is right go sneak (out of Arkhangelsk maybe) some Russkis on ships and take London.
Green blob pwns that little island off the coast of France. Just use your strengths (lots of land, and people), and avoid theirs.
Jagdmaus said:
Well, I was leaning towards Prussia, but now you've got me thinking Russia again. But isn't the micro-management a freaking nightmare with them? Not so much the pops (I've played games as Austria, USA, immigrant-powered Uruguay where I've had to manage hundreds of POPs), but ALL THAT LAND! It goes on forever!
Good strategy suggestion, though. Still a touch gamey with the "hide-the-secret-navy-and-marines-in-Archangelsk" move, but not nearly so much as milking the initial Russian naval parity with an 1836 DoW on the UK. Of course, I have to finish (or - who am I kidding - get to the point where I want to start over with someone else) my current game as the Ottomans, now at 1870. And I'm not particularly fond of Romanovs at this moment, after having to deal with them breathing down my Turkish neck for the whole game...
Russia is a piece of cake. I actually think playing as Prussia/NGF/Germany is more micromanagement... because you have so many POPs, a lot of whom are middle class, and you need to (pretty quickly) develop a balanced industrial base. Prussia is on the fast-track. Every time you turn around, you've got to be expanding factories, building new ones, railroads, converting POPs, getting ready for the next scripted war, managing the various (and constantly fluctuating) MIL/CON of the people... etc. Basically Germany is being born during this time, and it's a headache to try to perfectly organize it all into one, cohesive nation. I mean, it's exciting - being on the industrial fast track.
But it ain't Russia. Russia is almost entirely poor class, very little industry, takes a long time to gear up, so most of the first few decades, you aren't doing much other than preparing for various conquests. Techs come pretty slowly. RR and factories, as well. Your job is very simple, in the first several decades. After you become capable of industrializing, things can become a bit more complicated internally, but, since you have such a nice clean slate... it's easy. "I want a factory ... here. ...You, and you... will work in it." It's easy. All you have to do is make sure everything stays balanced, in terms of production.
Russia's a big, clean canvas. And you don't need to be doing any complex painting for several decades. Mainly work on army techs, and go destroy the Ottoman Empire. There's a key event - "Tsar of all Slavs" Look at it carefully, but basically you just need to capture the capitals of the Ottoman Empire, Romania, Bulgaria, and Serbia... then you will be rewarded. By doing so, you avoid the Crimean War (Turkey becomes a satellite of yours).
Then you meddle in Austria's affairs. Right before Prussia is going to win in the 1866 war (research what triggers PRU victory), you declare war on Austria, and annex Galacia. Then hopefully there's some silly alliance, like with Greece of something, then you can DoW Greece, and gang-bang Austria again.
Then you stab Prussia in the back, when they're fighting France in 1870. Oh, yeah baby - gotta love that 2-front war, eh. Britain is a bit out of the way, geographically. But, their power is fading over time, as you (et. al.) industrialize. You will crush them, all in good time. Especially after having acquired so much new land.
You can either go to war very early against the UK, when your army tech can still match theirs... or, wait a while, when you have caught up - probably late 70s or so, IIRC. Or, you can fight them in between, if you are willing to take large casualties. But, I only do that as a last recourse. But in any event, do the typical Russian thing... and fight deep within your own territory. Let them get lost within the deep, green maze. Then they will scream in terror, as they realize there is no escape.... no escape...
But it ain't Russia. Russia is almost entirely poor class, very little industry, takes a long time to gear up, so most of the first few decades, you aren't doing much other than preparing for various conquests. Techs come pretty slowly. RR and factories, as well. Your job is very simple, in the first several decades. After you become capable of industrializing, things can become a bit more complicated internally, but, since you have such a nice clean slate... it's easy. "I want a factory ... here. ...You, and you... will work in it." It's easy. All you have to do is make sure everything stays balanced, in terms of production.
Russia's a big, clean canvas. And you don't need to be doing any complex painting for several decades. Mainly work on army techs, and go destroy the Ottoman Empire. There's a key event - "Tsar of all Slavs" Look at it carefully, but basically you just need to capture the capitals of the Ottoman Empire, Romania, Bulgaria, and Serbia... then you will be rewarded. By doing so, you avoid the Crimean War (Turkey becomes a satellite of yours).
Then you meddle in Austria's affairs. Right before Prussia is going to win in the 1866 war (research what triggers PRU victory), you declare war on Austria, and annex Galacia. Then hopefully there's some silly alliance, like with Greece of something, then you can DoW Greece, and gang-bang Austria again.
Then you stab Prussia in the back, when they're fighting France in 1870. Oh, yeah baby - gotta love that 2-front war, eh. Britain is a bit out of the way, geographically. But, their power is fading over time, as you (et. al.) industrialize. You will crush them, all in good time. Especially after having acquired so much new land.
You can either go to war very early against the UK, when your army tech can still match theirs... or, wait a while, when you have caught up - probably late 70s or so, IIRC. Or, you can fight them in between, if you are willing to take large casualties. But, I only do that as a last recourse. But in any event, do the typical Russian thing... and fight deep within your own territory. Let them get lost within the deep, green maze. Then they will scream in terror, as they realize there is no escape.... no escape...
UK Blob, Russia
Pink Blob.... my 2 cents form latest experiance
In my latest game with Russia..
I've satillated Sweden, then crushed the turks in the Crimean War... (loving the Tsar event)... After some other minor conquest I spend some decades industrializing... Then I DOWed the Germano-Austro-Hungerian alliance... i crushed them like bug... both are now my vassals.
My situation is... I'm the most powerfull nation on the Earth (sort of)
15 000 industry score... second is France with 4 000.
Export is 12 000, Uk's is ~11 000. My population is 300m, UK has 500+m
My prestige is 4 600 points... second is UK with 4 300 points.
Military...heck I hate the brits... I have 200 standing divisions + 150 mob pool and 250 ships (mostly Dreads) and I'm second in the score with ~900
points..... first afcourse are the brits.... with 1 400...
They have someting like 1000 ships and 150 standing army, dont know about mob pool. Game year 1919.
How to beat them? I tried...killed half of there ships... lost all mine. They will never beat me on land, but will I beat them ot sea???
Pink Blob.... my 2 cents form latest experiance
In my latest game with Russia..
I've satillated Sweden, then crushed the turks in the Crimean War... (loving the Tsar event)... After some other minor conquest I spend some decades industrializing... Then I DOWed the Germano-Austro-Hungerian alliance... i crushed them like bug... both are now my vassals.
My situation is... I'm the most powerfull nation on the Earth (sort of)
15 000 industry score... second is France with 4 000.
Export is 12 000, Uk's is ~11 000. My population is 300m, UK has 500+m
My prestige is 4 600 points... second is UK with 4 300 points.
Military...heck I hate the brits... I have 200 standing divisions + 150 mob pool and 250 ships (mostly Dreads) and I'm second in the score with ~900
points..... first afcourse are the brits.... with 1 400...
They have someting like 1000 ships and 150 standing army, dont know about mob pool. Game year 1919.
How to beat them? I tried...killed half of there ships... lost all mine. They will never beat me on land, but will I beat them ot sea???
Play as Germany/Russia and spam battleships. I've never had a problem with the UK in my games.
Germany, Russia, or the United States would probably be the best choices. They're more than capable of building up the acceptable population levels and industrial base necessary to crush the UK. Wars in Victoria are won or lost before a single shot is ever fired.
Austria and France are both saddled with dismal POP growth rates, lousy historical events, and mediocre (at best) RGOs. They also have plenty of historical wars that are actually worth worrying about. Why? Well, as opposed to Prussia, historically they lost!
Austria and France are both saddled with dismal POP growth rates, lousy historical events, and mediocre (at best) RGOs. They also have plenty of historical wars that are actually worth worrying about. Why? Well, as opposed to Prussia, historically they lost!
I think Russia in particular has it pretty easy in a fight against the UK because its easy to get direct land access to India, at which point you can swamp the sub-continent with divisions and take it bit by bit.JoeGiavani said:
I like satelliting the UK when I play, it gives a huge bonus to my milscore, especially if I didn't slaughter their navy.
I defeated the British Navy as the Netherlands. It's just a matter of out-teching them. Ten ironclads can trash a LOT of Man-o-Wars. I went to war with France and the UK at the same time and defeated first the entire French Navy, then the entire British Navy with about twenty Ironclads (a few were completed during the war and I lost about seven or eight -- I also went through all my outdated ships, which were mostly commerce raiders and monitors). This was in the late 1860's (it was a badboy war from me expanding my empire in Arabia)
Then I invaded the home island, but didn't have the manpower to deal with all the soldiers they had there. Even though they couldn't bring in any more, their reserves trashed my soldiers (even though my soldiers had higher attack, organization, and morale, they just couldn't defeat the oncoming waves of Brits).
I need to finish that game, it was a lot of fun playing the Super Netherlands (reconquered Belgium, researched way too many army/navy techs and traded with Prussia for industrial/commerce techs. I had like 7 cultural techs in the 1880's, haha)
Then I invaded the home island, but didn't have the manpower to deal with all the soldiers they had there. Even though they couldn't bring in any more, their reserves trashed my soldiers (even though my soldiers had higher attack, organization, and morale, they just couldn't defeat the oncoming waves of Brits).
I need to finish that game, it was a lot of fun playing the Super Netherlands (reconquered Belgium, researched way too many army/navy techs and traded with Prussia for industrial/commerce techs. I had like 7 cultural techs in the 1880's, haha)
Actually, Japan's pretty darn well positioned to take the Empire apart after achieving something resembling tech parity - in the hands of a human player, especially if you grab Manchuria early (not entirely ahistorical), you have the numbers and economic might to produce a fleet to match them.
VIP:R helps too. Making British India substantially more vulnerable is a good thing.
Bit of a long convoy to England, though. I like to ally or at least stay on good terms with France in particular, partly because she generally has a few bazillion troops in Vietnam and a decent fleet, partly because being able to stage out of Brest and Marseilles makes things a bit less problematic.
VIP:R helps too. Making British India substantially more vulnerable is a good thing.
Bit of a long convoy to England, though. I like to ally or at least stay on good terms with France in particular, partly because she generally has a few bazillion troops in Vietnam and a decent fleet, partly because being able to stage out of Brest and Marseilles makes things a bit less problematic.
OK - I'm back. Please allow me to update you on my progress.
I took Prussia, unified Germany with the Conservative Empire event in 1850 (all German states joined except Hamburg), put the Socialists in charge for a year or two to get the socialism-linked plurality boosts from Ideological Thought, then became a liberal democracy. With high plurality and plenty of tasty RGO- and factory-openings, I drew swarms of immigrants.
On the foreign affairs front, I whipped Denmark in the first scripted war (annexing Holstein in the progress) and kept all of Jutland for my troubles. Then I bided my time until Russian WE in the Crimean War got to about 15-20% and then stabbed them in the back. I didn't take any land, just satellited them. After that, I attacked Austria relentlessly in 3 quick, brutal wars. I took the rest of Silesia, and all of Bohemia-Moravia, plus all German-speaking states of Austria proper (except for Wien province, of course) and satellited them as well.
Meanwhile, I started aggressively placing claims all along the African coast. I'd forgotten just how aggressive the French AI is when it comes to Africa. Right after I claimed the colony of Rooktown, the French declared colonial war and to get peace, I had to give them Rooktown (in the mean time, I snatched up all their undefended claim buildings). The day 5 years later that the truce finally expired, I steamrolled those bastards. Talk about overkill - I brought about 130 divisions to bear on them (without mobilizing), while all they had floating around Metroploitan France were a few 1000-men formations that evaporated upon contact with the German Army (most of the French army was off fighting another pointless colonial war in deepest Africa). Terms of peace were harsh, but I feel they were appropriate: the cessation of the entirety of Alsace-Lorraine state, and submission to the Kaiser as a satellite nation.
One last quick war was fought after this. Beligum was ground into a fine paste and allowed to live after surrendering Arlon (to complete the Luxemburg state, as I had earlier bought off Luxembourg province from the Netherlands) and agreeing to satellite status. A primary aim of this war was actually (ironically enough) to increase relations with Belgium so as to make some beneficial tech trades, as the RPs were flowing free and easy.
The year is now 1905. With the exception of the area immediately surrounding the city of Vienna, all of Grossdeutschland is now united under Prussian leadership. The mighty nations of Russia, France, and Austria are all subervient clients of the Kaiser. For the past 15 years, Germany has been pouring her stratospheric wealth into a massive ship-building program, achieving rough parity with the Royal Navy in Pre-Dreadnoughts and Protected Cruisers, and seizing a huge lead in the deployment of bleeding-edge tech ships such as Dreadnoughts and Light Cruisers. The standing army is over 150 divisions strong, and is well-rested, not having fought anyone other than rebels in over a generation. With the stage thus set, Germany is finally ready to embark upon the final step in her rise to world dominance: a military showdown with the British Crown...
I took Prussia, unified Germany with the Conservative Empire event in 1850 (all German states joined except Hamburg), put the Socialists in charge for a year or two to get the socialism-linked plurality boosts from Ideological Thought, then became a liberal democracy. With high plurality and plenty of tasty RGO- and factory-openings, I drew swarms of immigrants.
On the foreign affairs front, I whipped Denmark in the first scripted war (annexing Holstein in the progress) and kept all of Jutland for my troubles. Then I bided my time until Russian WE in the Crimean War got to about 15-20% and then stabbed them in the back. I didn't take any land, just satellited them. After that, I attacked Austria relentlessly in 3 quick, brutal wars. I took the rest of Silesia, and all of Bohemia-Moravia, plus all German-speaking states of Austria proper (except for Wien province, of course) and satellited them as well.
Meanwhile, I started aggressively placing claims all along the African coast. I'd forgotten just how aggressive the French AI is when it comes to Africa. Right after I claimed the colony of Rooktown, the French declared colonial war and to get peace, I had to give them Rooktown (in the mean time, I snatched up all their undefended claim buildings). The day 5 years later that the truce finally expired, I steamrolled those bastards. Talk about overkill - I brought about 130 divisions to bear on them (without mobilizing), while all they had floating around Metroploitan France were a few 1000-men formations that evaporated upon contact with the German Army (most of the French army was off fighting another pointless colonial war in deepest Africa). Terms of peace were harsh, but I feel they were appropriate: the cessation of the entirety of Alsace-Lorraine state, and submission to the Kaiser as a satellite nation.
One last quick war was fought after this. Beligum was ground into a fine paste and allowed to live after surrendering Arlon (to complete the Luxemburg state, as I had earlier bought off Luxembourg province from the Netherlands) and agreeing to satellite status. A primary aim of this war was actually (ironically enough) to increase relations with Belgium so as to make some beneficial tech trades, as the RPs were flowing free and easy.
The year is now 1905. With the exception of the area immediately surrounding the city of Vienna, all of Grossdeutschland is now united under Prussian leadership. The mighty nations of Russia, France, and Austria are all subervient clients of the Kaiser. For the past 15 years, Germany has been pouring her stratospheric wealth into a massive ship-building program, achieving rough parity with the Royal Navy in Pre-Dreadnoughts and Protected Cruisers, and seizing a huge lead in the deployment of bleeding-edge tech ships such as Dreadnoughts and Light Cruisers. The standing army is over 150 divisions strong, and is well-rested, not having fought anyone other than rebels in over a generation. With the stage thus set, Germany is finally ready to embark upon the final step in her rise to world dominance: a military showdown with the British Crown...
I findit quite easy to win wars against Britain as China. Once you become civilized and declare war on them, all the little Indian minors will declare war on you. Occupying their capitals will quickly get you 99%+ war score. Also, as China you can field virtually unlmited numbers of troops and swamp any armies they have in India. After my last war the Brits were begging for peace after a few months, having lost twenty of their forty divisions by unwisely attacking the very well defended Chinese mainland.
But, if you want to sink their navy, Prussia/Germany is the country. You start with very high literacy, so you can easliy get a naval tech advantage. But even without it it, if you build enough ships you can usually distract the British navy long enough to land a lot of troops in Britain, and once you start occupying the home islands they will always offer peace.
But, if you want to sink their navy, Prussia/Germany is the country. You start with very high literacy, so you can easliy get a naval tech advantage. But even without it it, if you build enough ships you can usually distract the British navy long enough to land a lot of troops in Britain, and once you start occupying the home islands they will always offer peace.
I think your underestimating the US. Due to its position, as long as you can garrison the coast (which is relatively easy) you don't have much to worry about from the british. You can use the early years to rush Naval since you don't need many army techs to beat Mexico and after taking your cores from Mexico you won't have to worry about many land wars.
If you take all of Canada and then sink the Royal Navy they will offer peace at some point. The most important thing is to not get too busy building Ironclads. Speed through the naval techs aiming to jump right to Dreadnoughts or Pre-Dreads since Ironclads automatically destroy wood ships, and the Dreads destroy ironclads automatically.
If you take all of Canada and then sink the Royal Navy they will offer peace at some point. The most important thing is to not get too busy building Ironclads. Speed through the naval techs aiming to jump right to Dreadnoughts or Pre-Dreads since Ironclads automatically destroy wood ships, and the Dreads destroy ironclads automatically.