Help me destroy the Big Pink Blob!

[bovinespy]

Hello all. I've been playing a lot of different nations recently (Belgium, Netherlands, Uruguay, Austria, Sweden/Scandinavia, currently Ottomans), and while I've been having a blast, I've noticed one recurring trend in all of these games - a simpering, sniveling fear and respect for the mighty colossus that is the United Kingdom. Which leads me to my current question for you...

Which nation (V:R, with latest hotfix) is best positioned to overcome the power of the UK in a 1836 GC without overly gamey exploits? I want to be able to fight them, and beat them, several times before the end of the GC, sinking their fleet, grabbing their colonies, and perhaps even occupying the home islands. Obviuosly, I'm going to need a lot of money, manpower, and tech (and some luck) to pull this off.

My guesses would be Russia, Prussia/Germany, USA, or Austria, but I'm still improving my strategy and tactics from game to game, so I'm not sure exactly who is the best candidate, and what would be a good strategy to accomplish my goals. Of course, if I wanted to be gamey, I could take Russia, promote that admiral that gets +7 fire, and destroy the British fleet in 1836 (I saw this suggestion in an earlier thread here), but I'm looking to avoid overt gamey-ness.

If there is no way of reliably doing it without being gamey, then please let me know that, as well. No use beating my head against a wall for no good reason.

My apologies if this has been covered before, but I couldn't really search for "UK" on this forum, as it's too short of a phrase.

Thanks in advance for all helpful suggestions!

 

[SeedSnatcher]

USA gets my vote. Mind you, that's about the only country I've tried taking the British Empire on with.

 

[Orm]

I was well on the way doing it with China once, had taken away all of India and had begun grabbing bits of southern Africa, but then the game developed a nasty habit of crashing every month, so I gave it up.

 

[L'Afrique]

Germany or the US are probably best. Russia and China could, certainly, but it would be harder to justify historically.

 

[bovinespy]

USA gets my vote. Mind you, that's about the only country I've tried taking the British Empire on with.

Did you do an early war with the UK to grab their American claims? I tried that with an abandoned USA attempt, and found that even after taking almost all of Canada and racking up about 50% warscore, the British would never make peace, even after offering white peace.

 

[Armfeldt]

I'd recommend Germany. Just pump that industrial score up first, and then build a large enough navy, and you'll have your spot in the sun!

 

[L'Afrique]

Did you do an early war with the UK to grab their American claims? I tried that with an abandoned USA attempt, and found that even after taking almost all of Canada and racking up about 50% warscore, the British would never make peace, even after offering white peace.

They generally only make peace with anyone if you invade their home islands. Wihich is unfortuantely easy to do sometimes. I mananged it as Germany with about ten divions and a stack of dreadnoughts.

 

[fudd_bopo]

Since you pretty much have to invade their home islands to get any good peace deal from them, I'd reccomend going for sinking their navy (If you've got a big-ish country). If you can get ships like monitor or such before them you've got a good chance (as long as you also have an economy good enough to build steamer ships and keep up with them). Now they're really fast at researching and as far as I can tell more often than not ahead of everyone else.

It can probably be done with most countries (if not all). But I'd say Germany would be a good choice, since they're pretty close to the UK main islands.

I'd say get as close as possible, especially if you can't beat their navy. You can still make a successfull landing on the main islands, but you'll have to be fast. The less time spent at sea the smaller the chance that their navy stop you.

Ofcourse if you can beat their navy you pretty much have won, since they can't move armies from all over the empire to defend themselves (or attack you).

Well, hope this was of at least some use. I guess most of it was just me pointing out the obvious...

Anyway, good luck! be sure to let us know if it all works out.

 

[bovinespy]

I was well on the way doing it with China once, had taken away all of India and had begun grabbing bits of southern Africa, but then the game developed a nasty habit of crashing every month, so I gave it up.

China? How the heck did you pull that off?

 

[bovinespy]

I'd recommend Germany. Just pump that industrial score up first, and then build a large enough navy, and you'll have your spot in the sun!

Germany has great industry/tech, but will they have enough manpower to stay with the UK? All those POPs for the UK = more clerks, craftsmen, and soldiers than I can ever have as Germany (right?).

 

[bovinespy]

Ofcourse if you can beat their navy you pretty much have won, since they can't move armies from all over the empire to defend themselves (or attack you).

My thoughts exactly. Just sneaking a few divsions onto the British Isles feels kinda cheap. I want to DESTROY that navy!!

 

[Armfeldt]

Germany's population is not a problem, not in SP at least. Never played much MP so cannot judge on that.

 

[orimazd]

China? How the heck did you pull that off?

They are easy to civilize, but you can promote a dozen giant pops and your research speed will only go up by a few hundredths of a a point per month.

 

[fudd_bopo]

Germany's population is not a problem, not in SP at least. Never played much MP so cannot judge on that.

Yeah, if you manage to form Germany, you should have more than enough population to beat the UK. Especially since if you manage to beat their navy they won't be able to make much use of their colonies.

I've had most luck beating the UK navy by staying a step or two ahead of them technologically on the naval part. The only problem with that is that I had to make some other sacrifices. But if your goal only is to beat the UK, it might be worth it.

The size of their navy seem to vary a lot in my games, but if you can get better ships than them you should be able to take their navy down without much trouble.

Russia are probably one of the easier ones too, if you go down central asia and keep a large army you should be able to beat them and take India and all their satellites out (separate peace with the satellites can get you a long way in one war down there). This one worked wonders during a wc I did with Russia. Although I can't say I had a good reputation afterwards.

 

[bovinespy]

I'm seeing a lot of good stuff here from everyone. Thanks. It looks like I'll probably try with Prussia/Germany. The USA pisses me off, because all the damn immigrants go to either California or Alaska, Russia is a POP-management nightmare, and China is like Russia, only uncivilized (probably beyond my skills at this point, even if I was up for the micro-management). I notice no votes for either France or Austria...

Yeah, if you manage to form Germany, you should have more than enough population to beat the UK. Especially since if you manage to beat their navy they won't be able to make much use of their colonies.

I've had most luck beating the UK navy by staying a step or two ahead of them technologically on the naval part. The only problem with that is that I had to make some other sacrifices. But if your goal only is to beat the UK, it might be worth it.

The size of their navy seem to vary a lot in my games, but if you can get better ships than them you should be able to take their navy down without much trouble.

Of course, starting in 1836, one of the most crucial decisions is when/how to unify Germany. Related to that is the issue of when to commence hostilities with the British. Should I start early, when they're weaker, but so am I, or wait until after unification, when there will most likely be a badboy-war or two? Just build a whole mess of new ships when the latest naval tech allowing new designs occurs? Stockpile resources and wait for the UK to attack, then embark on a crash naval construction program?

I hope I'm not pestering too much, but for me it's often an investment of several hours just to get my nation up-and-running, and sufficently industrialized and militarized to even be in a position to hope to fight a Great Power and win. I hate to waste all that time only to screw up something stupid and have to start again (when that happens, I usually just pick another country to play).

 

[The BadgerUK]

Personally i'd wait until after Unification, you'll be stronger plus you'll get the troops the German Minors recruited.

You might also want to consider satilliting Belgium, Holland and poss France to give yourself some buffer states when the BB wars start, they might also give you more options in terms of launching an invasion - a quick hop across the channel from France rather than sailing from, i dunno, Kiel might give you the edge.

Just a thought.

 

[Herbert West]

Prussia, if you unify her under the Conservative Empire event (go to war during the Humiliation at Olmutz event, beat Austria to a pulp). Youll have a huge manpower pool (in my current game, I had 80 north and 30 south german divisions in manpower, without a single soldier promotion), and an absolutely overwhelming mob pool for home defence. Your economy should also be able to handle buliding a fleet. You should take GB of _before_ the hardcoded DN spreee they have around 1905. Build a fleet (10 years max), land in London, and get them to give you indemnities, nibble away at their colonial empire, or even puppet them.

 

[bovinespy]

Prussia, if you unify her under the Conservative Empire event (go to war during the Humiliation at Olmutz event, beat Austria to a pulp). Youll have a huge manpower pool (in my current game, I had 80 north and 30 south german divisions in manpower, without a single soldier promotion), and an absolutely overwhelming mob pool for home defence. Your economy should also be able to handle buliding a fleet. You should take GB of _before_ the hardcoded DN spreee they have around 1905. Build a fleet (10 years max), land in London, and get them to give you indemnities, nibble away at their colonial empire, or even puppet them.

This sounds good, but I thought (from reading the VickyWiki) that the Conservative Empire event only has a 1 in 4 chance of firing, at best. That seems to me like a fairly slender reed on which to hang a grand strategy...

I haven't played Prussia in over a year, and to be honest, the main reason I haven't played them is because of the whole unification headache. I can handle the scripted Danish and Austrian wars just fine, and France doesn't scare me at all (though waiting on a French defeat means putting off unification until at least 1870). In a shameless attempt to hijack my own thread, can anyone recommend a good thread for handling German unification?

 

[Herbert West]

Only if AI. You, as a human player, should get the event every time. At least, I get it every time.

 

[bovinespy]

Only if AI. You, as a human player, should get the event every time. At least, I get it every time.

Really? Well, that gives me some confidence. Do you usually get embroiled in BB wars as a result?