Help managing titles as non-Doge of a Merchant Republic

[Calvin_McG]

I've seen other posts about general vassal and title management as a merchant republic, but not for this specific issue.

Some background: I started on the Charlemagne bookmark (768? 786?) as Alfamati. It's 992 as of now, Alfamati is still a Byzantine vassal though I'm not the Doge. Beyond the lifetime of my first character I've only been the Doge two other times, and they were both mostly by happenstance. Instead of competing for Dogeship I've focused on collecting territory not tied to the Doge title as a normal Patrician. I've got a bit of Serbia and half of Ireland.

My problem: I've just hit my demesne limit and my character is about to either die, or become the Doge very briefly, and then die. Since I'm not the Doge (Who is apparently Duke level) I can't create Ducal titles to solve the demesne limit problem.

I also can't just grant land to one of my sons or other vassal either though. As a patrician I'm apparently Count level, so since any land I grant makes that character a Count they end up as a vassal of the Doge instead of me. I get a similar situation if I become Doge and make a Ducal title. The new duke just becomes a vassal of the Byzantine Emperor.

I managed to stave off this issue very briefly by handing off my cities as I collected counties, but the next war I compete is going to put me past my limit. On top of that, there's a decent chance that it's going to happen without getting new land when I die since my heir's stewardship is not that high.

Is there a way to solve this problem and hold on to all of my land? I can make myself the Doge relatively easily if it would help. I've got ~230% plot power against the current Doge and I am winning the election by over 2000 points off of just age and prestige. If I have too I can just bit the bullet and feed some counties to the Doge but that's a sub-optimal solution.

 

[BD13]

If you get elected dodge you could create a few duchies and then a custom amalfi kingdom. The duchies should pass to your family if you lose an election. Tbh republic succession can get a little weird sometimes. Everytime I think I have republics completely figured out some new issue arises.

Best bet is to always rig every election. Make the other patricians pay you taxes. Making you stronger and them weaker.

 

[Calvin_McG]

Amalfi is not large enough to turn into a kingdom, and wouldn't that make it not a merchant republic any more?

But if this does work, basically I make myself the Doge and collect more land to turn the Doge into a king equivalent? I guess from there I can still be a duke if I lose Doge status, allowing me to hold more land?

 

[TCWolffe]

Merchant Republics can be duchy, kingdom, or empire tier (for example, I believe Venice is a kingdom tier "Most Serene Republic" but that might just be in the mod I play).

Some of the issues you're running into aren't necessarily even MR related. Regardless of government type, if you grant an equal-tier title to another character, you will lose control of it. If you are independent, the granted duchy will be independent, if you are a vassal, that duchy will be a vassal under your current overlord.

So you would need to become doge, claim some duchies, make the MR kingdom tier (either de jure which would probably be Sicily or just create a new titular kingdom from holding 3 duchies plus some gold/prestige/piety), and then you could hold (multiple) duchy titles within it even if you lose the next succession.

My experience tells me that you will want to do everything you can to retain control of the MR once it is kingdom level, kings tend to exhibit a lot more ambitious (read: reckless) behavior. A careless AI doge can end up causing blowback that could end the republic (depending on the CB type used, it could be a game over for you, as well). Once the MR has a number of powerful vassals, there's also the problem of only being able to get limited crown authority, so you can't stop vassals from warring and scheming against each other, as well, which can severely weaken overall strength.

 

[Dahoota]

As others have said, at this point you need to become Doge and focus on staying Doge, certainly until you can make it kingdom tier. At this point it shouldn't be hard as you can outspend your opponents.

Another tip to make this easy is to give your designated heir the titles of Designated Regent and commander (but don't let him fight). Each gives x1 presitge/month and already he will be earning more prestige than the unlanded patricians.

 

[Calvin_McG]

I've kingdomified my Republic. I was just shy of having enough of Ireland to form that kingdom title so I finished that off.

And I'd have plenty of money to win elections if this bug did not keep happening.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-yzaz-raiders-siege-looped-infinitely.911878/
Just now I went from +250 to -500 gold. Really irritating that this is still around a month later. It's royally screwed my one good ironman run so far.