[HELP] Ideas for Byzantium/Roman Empire - CK2 converted game

[CzokletMuss]

I'm currently playing as ERE in CK2 with all the mods (Sunset Invasion included) and my realm looks like this more or less:

It's not completely up to date map (I'm also writing AAR, so I don't want to spoil the story) but what's important is that before exporting to EU4 I'm planning (I'm playing on Ironman) to more or less reestablish imperial borders from the reign of Justinian the Great:

So here's the thing - I don't know which ideas groups should I choose as the exported Byzantium/Roman Empire. I was thinking about taking these:
1. Religious
2. Exploration
3. Expansion
4. Administrative
5. Trade
6. Economic

But this still leaves two slots and I don't know which ones should I take - Naval? Diplomatic? Defensive? I prefer ideas which will enhance my national ideas but honestly I could use some help with choosing the right ideas groups and the order in which I should take them

 

[stilgarpl]

Exploration&Expansion as Byzantium? Why? What are you going to colonize? With Sunset Invasion Americas are completely controlled by Aztec and Inca.
Take Defensive and Diplomatic or Aristocracy.
Trade... well, unless you are going to move your capital to Venice, you aren't going to make much money that way.

 

[CzokletMuss]

Exploration&Expansion as Byzantium? Why? What are you going to colonize?

Africa, Asia and Oceania?

Trade... well, unless you are going to move your capital to Venice, you aren't going to make much money that way.

Even if I control the trade flow from China? I'm not sure about this but it seems like a good idea.

 

[balmung60]

Don't listen to him. There's still enough room in the Americas to colonize from Manhattan to Chinook (the Aztecs conveniently leave a path open and don't take Exploration or Expansion) and a good bit of room in South America, though the Inca DO do colonize.

 

[CzokletMuss]

Don't listen to him. There's still enough room in the Americas to colonize from Manhattan to Chinook (the Aztecs conveniently leave a path open and don't take Exploration or Expansion) and a good bit of room in South America, though the Inca DO do colonize.

They don't? Hmm. And if I wanted them to for role-play purposes can this be changed somehown in exported save files?

 

[balmung60]

Find common/countries/Aztec.txt in the exported game. The contents should look like this:

#Country Name: Please see filename.

graphical_culture = southamericagfx

color = { 48  149  21 } 

historical_idea_groups = {
	religious_ideas
	offensive_ideas
	administrative_ideas
	naval_ideas
	economic_ideas
	defensive_ideas
	quality_ideas
	trade_ideas
}

historical_units = {
	south_american_spearmen
	aztec_tribal_warfare
	aztec_hill_warfare
	aztec_gunpowder_warfare
	westernized_aztec
	mexican_guerilla_warfare
}

monarch_names = {
	"Moctezuma #0" = 40
	"Auitzotl #0" = 20
	"Axayacatl #0" = 20
	"Cuauhtemoc #0" = 20
	"Cuitlahuac #0" = 20
	"Huitzilihuitl #0" = 20
	"Itzcoatl #0" = 20
	"Ohimalpopoca #0" = 20
	"Tizoc #0" = 20
	"Huanitzin #0" = 15
	"Motelchiuh #0" = 15
	"Tehuetstiquitzin #0" = 15
	"Tlacotzin #0" = 15
	"Xochiquentzin #0" = 15
	"Acamapichtli #1" = 10
	"Chimalpopoca #1" = 10
	"Tenoch #1" = 10
	"Acacitli #0" = 0
	"Ahcambal #0" = 0
	"Axacaya #0" = 0
	"Cacamatzin #0" = 0
	"Eyahue #0" = 0
	"Huicton #0" = 0
	"Ilhuicamina #0" = 0
	"Itzquautzin #0" = 0
	"Mazatl #0" = 0
	"Nopaltzin #0" = 0
	"Olintecke #0" = 0
	"Opochtli #0" = 0
	"Panitzin #0" = 0
	"Quetzalmantzin #0" = 0
	"Quimichetl #0" = 0
	"Texcoyo #0" = 0
	"Timas #0" = 0
	"Tlacaelel #0" = 0
	"Tlotzin #0" = 0
	"Xiuhcozcatl #0" = 0
	"Xocoyol #0" = 0
	"Yaztachimal #0" = 0
	"Zolton #0" = 0
	
	"Centehua #0" = -1
	"Moyolehuani #0" = -1
	"Yaotl #0" = -1
}

leader_names = {
        Acatlotzin Ahuítzotl Axayacátl Axoquetzin Cacamatzin Chalchiutlatonac Cuauhtemoc Cuitlahuac Cuitlalpitoc
	Ecatzin Eyahue Ezhuahuacatl Huemac Huestzin Huitzilihuitl Itzcoatl Ixtlilxochitl Izquemitl
	Mazatl Maxixcatzin Moctezuma Motelchiuh Nauyotl Nezahualpilli Nopaltzin
	Ocelopan Olintecke Opochtli Oquitzin Panitzin Pimotl Popopoyotl
	Quahcoatl Qualpopoca Quilaztli Quimichetl Temilotecatl Tezozomoc Tizoc Totoquihuatzin Tzompantli
	Xiconocatzin Xochipanitzin Xolotl Xomimitl Yaomauhitzin Yaztachimal Zincicha Zoanacochtzin Zolton
}

ship_names = {
	Acolmiztli Acolnahuacat "Ah Hoya" "Ah Tzenul" Amimitl Apanecatl Atl Atlau Axoloa
	Camaxtli Centeot Centzonuiznaua Chalchiuhtlatonal Chalchiuhtlicue Chalchiutotolin Chalmecalt Chalmecaucihuilt
	Chantico Chichomexochtli Chicomecoatl Chiconahuai Chihalma Chualchihuitlcue Cihuacaotyl Cinteotl
	Citlalatonac Citlalicue Ciucoatl Coatlicue Cochimetl Coyolxauhqui Cuauhcoatl 
	Ehehcatl Eueucoyotl
	"Hopop Can" Huehueteotl Huitzilopochtli Huixtocihuatl
	Itzcoliuhqui Itzli Itzpapalotl Itzpzpalotl Ixtlilton Iztamixcoatzin
	Macuilxochitl Mahayuel Malinalxochi Matalcueye Metztli Mictlan Mictlancihuntl Mictlantechtle
	Mictlantechupi Mictlantecihuatl Mixcoatl
	Nanauatzin
	Ococaltzin Omecihuatl Ometecuhlti Ometeotl Omeyocan
	Patecatli Paynal
	Quetzalcoatl
	Tecciztecatl Teoyaomqui Tepeyollotl Teteoinnan Tezacoatl Tezcatlipoca Tillan-Tlapallan Tlaloc
	Tlalocan Tlaltechhtlii Tlazolteotl Tonacatecuhtli Tonatiuhican Tonatiuth Tzitmime
	Xilonen "Xipe Totec" Xiucoatl Xiuhtecuhtli Xochipilli Xochiquetzal Xolotl Xonecuilli
	Yacatechutli
}

This is the part you care about:

historical_idea_groups = {
	religious_ideas
	offensive_ideas
	administrative_ideas
	naval_ideas
	economic_ideas
	defensive_ideas
	quality_ideas
	trade_ideas
}

These lines tell a nation what eight idea groups to pick, though not what order to do it in. Additionally, in later starts, it DOES determine what order they have taken them in (but not future idea groups).

You can either delete one of these and replace it with either exploration_ideas or expansion_ideas or combine your game with something like The Tenth Idea which allows more idea groups, and in turn, should allow you to add more "historical" idea groups (have not tested this).

Alternatively, you could just cheese it and buff their NIs like so (changes in bold, file is common/ideas/01_american_ideas.txt, and you can change the number of colonists to suit how fast you want them to colonize):

aztec_ideas = {
	start = {
		advisor_cost = -0.05
		infantry_power = 0.05
	}
	bonus = {
		land_morale = 0.10
	}
	trigger = {
		tag = AZT
		religion = aztec_reformed
		technology_group = high_american
	}
	free = yes
	
	build_telpochcalli = {
		technology_cost = -0.05
                [B]colonists = 1[/B]
	}
	flower_wars = {
		global_revolt_risk = -1
                [B]may_explore = yes[/B]
                
	}
	invade_whiteskins = {
		naval_attrition = -0.10
		may_explore = yes
	}
	azt_state_admin_reform = {
		global_tax_modifier = 0.05
	}
	found_imperial_cities = {
		production_efficiency = 0.05
	}
	form_imperial_army = {
		discipline = 0.10
	}
	azt_imperial_road_network = {
		global_tariffs = 0.10
	}
}

incan_ideas = {
	start = {
		advisor_cost = -0.05
		defensiveness = 0.20
	}
	bonus = {
		land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.10
	}
	trigger = {
		tag = INC
		religion = inca_reformed
		technology_group = high_american
	}
	free = yes
	
	census_record_quipo = {
		global_manpower_modifier = 0.05
	}
	enforce_quechua = {
		stability_cost_modifier = -0.05
	}
	written_word = {
		technology_cost = -0.1
	}
	official_axe_monies = {
		global_trade_income_modifier = 0.10
	}
	imperial_gold_trading = {
		merchants = 1
	}
	inc_state_admin_reform = {
		global_tax_modifier = 0.05
	}
	inc_imperial_road_network = {
		global_tariffs = 0.10
	}
}

You may also wish to give them a bonus to global_colonial_growth or something.

 

[stilgarpl]

Africa, Asia and Oceania?

Even if I control the trade flow from China? I'm not sure about this but it seems like a good idea.

Africa/Asia/Oceania -> not worth it. Trade from China, maybe, but you can make a lot more profit from production and building manufactories everywhere.

 

[balmung60]

Africa/Asia/Oceania -> not worth it. Trade from China, maybe, but you can make a lot more profit from production and building manufactories everywhere.

He could just conquer south a bit and colonize contiguous provinces in Africa, thus averting the Distant Overseas penalty.

 

[CzokletMuss]

Find common/countries/Aztec.txt in the exported game. -snip-

That was extremely helpful, thank you very much!

 

[stilgarpl]

He could just conquer south a bit and colonize contiguous provinces in Africa, thus averting the Distant Overseas penalty.

Still don't think it's worth wasting two idea groups.

 

[CzokletMuss]

So instead of taking Exploration&Expansion you suggest Diplo and Defensive? Or Aristocracy?

 

[Pornek]

So instead of taking Exploration&Expansion you suggest Diplo and Defensive? Or Aristocracy?

Dont take Aristocracy for anything other than RP reasons.

As Byzanz I would suggest:

Diplo/ Expansion - for the diplo bonusses
Defensive - stacks with Goverment and better army tradition.
Religion - you need the CB and convert%, if you want to restore pentarchy
Admin - coring stacks with your NI, aswell as cheaper mercs.
Offensive - Forced March and +forcelimit
Trade/ Naval - gold incase you need it.
Innovative - stacks nicely with your NIs, also additional leaders is a must have.
Quality - better armies & better ships.

Edit: If you start as Empire Romanum you have different NIs.

 

[EU3NOOB]

Ah! I remember this story! So you're going to convert? Excellent!


Anyway is Exploration and Expansion one or two ideas? If the latter then forgo exploration. If former, forgo it. Just not worth it. Besides, in a geopolitical sense, Byzantine priorities should, for the most part be in lockstep with the Ottomans of OTL. The Aztec won't change this. Just build up your navy, after wiping the Aztec horde from Europe, and be prepared for a major fight, if you want revenge of course(of course you do, silly!).

 

[balmung60]

Actually, the very powerful Exploration antipagan CB could be pretty useful for dismantling the Aztecs. Half AE, half costs, and universal targeting of pagans, no border needed.

 

[CzokletMuss]

Dont take Aristocracy for anything other than RP reasons.

As Byzanz I would suggest:

Diplo/ Expansion - for the diplo bonusses
Defensive - stacks with Goverment and better army tradition.
Religion - you need the CB and convert%, if you want to restore pentarchy
Admin - coring stacks with your NI, aswell as cheaper mercs.
Offensive - Forced March and +forcelimit
Trade/ Naval - gold incase you need it.
Innovative - stacks nicely with your NIs, also additional leaders is a must have.
Quality - better armies & better ships.

Edit: If you start as Empire Romanum you have different NIs.

I know - would you be so kind and make a similiar list for Roman NI? I was thinking about Religious and Administrative because together with Orthodox, wine trade and some other bonuses I can get as low as -80% for stability cost, while the Administrative will give me -25% coring cost, which stacks nicely with Roman -20% coring cost NI.

Assuming I will became RE and Aztecs/Mongols won't eat me of course...

EDIT: And speaking about gold - assuming I have Justinian-like borders should I care about trade at all or just concentrate on taxes and production? If so this would give me another idea group in place of Trade.

 

[Pornek]

I know - would you be so kind and make a similiar list for Roman NI? I was thinking about Religious and Administrative because together with Orthodox, wine trade and some other bonuses I can get as low as -80% for stability cost, while the Administrative will give me -25% coring cost, which stacks nicely with Roman -20% coring cost NI.

Assuming I will became RE and Aztecs/Mongols won't eat me of course...

EDIT: And speaking about gold - assuming I have Justinian-like borders should I care about trade at all or just concentrate on taxes and production? If so this would give me another idea group in place of Trade.

You have to start as Roman Empire, you cant convert into it in EUIV. I would take the same NIs as Roman Empire.
They are very similiar, but kind of better.
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Roman

Btw my list wasnt a list of order, just what I would pick and then depeding on what I need.

 

[Pornek]

EDIT: And speaking about gold - assuming I have Justinian-like borders should I care about trade at all or just concentrate on taxes and production? If so this would give me another idea group in place of Trade.

Greece, Anatolia, Balkan and Levant give enough gold for you, so that you can take something else.

 

[CzokletMuss]

-useful information-

I wonder whether it would be wise to change Trade to some military idea in regard to idea-based events and decisions - wouldn't Trade be better than for example Defensive or Quality?

Ah! I remember this story! So you're going to convert? Excellent!

Anyway is Exploration and Expansion one or two ideas? If the latter then forgo exploration. If former, forgo it. Just not worth it. Besides, in a geopolitical sense, Byzantine priorities should, for the most part be in lockstep with the Ottomans of OTL. The Aztec won't change this. Just build up your navy, after wiping the Aztec horde from Europe, and be prepared for a major fight, if you want revenge of course(of course you do, silly!).

Yup

Two separate ideas. And yes, invading Aztecs crossed my mind - Angeloi always pay their debts

 

[CzokletMuss]

Okay, so right now the situation in my AAR about crumbling Europe with horde of Aztec savages from the Far West and Mongol Horde conquering everything looks like this:

There is still a lot of time before the game ends, so a lot can happen. I've been thinking about the idea set recently and here's what I came up with:

1. Exploration
2. Religious
3. Expansion
4. Administrative
5. Diplomatic
6. Naval
7. Defensive/Offensive
8. Quality/Quantity

But my problem with this is that I'll burn a lot of DIP points and I think I'm going to need a decent fleet with High Americans expanding to defend myself. Any ideas?

 

[Olligarchy]

Go Suomenusko Pagans! Greater Finland or Bust!