HELP: gameplay question, what are my options to solve this ?

[kilen2015]

hey guys,
i need your councils & advices.

i am Ottomans in this new VH campaign try after 214hours of play on EU4,
all works pretty fine here actually (one of my 2 best tries with Ottomans, i dont want to mess anything, i play very slowly & carefully).

so,
Candar is my ally, i just want to vassalize them & i already have a mariage with (no way to waste 1stab point to DoW them later, and admin points next to recover this stab point lost if i can get my objectives by diplomacy ; i trully need a diplo solution).

i come from minus1065 points of chance they agreed to be vassalized, i gave them back their 3rd province (to cancel -1000penalty with) ; plus last asset, spending ~40$ to influence them (+5trust earned with) as great power... they are now at minus60 instead of minus1065, ONLY !
its promessing but still too short.

and we already have +200diplo-relation, no way out there to use my diplomates to get these 8pts missing yet...

in fact, we have 4major+2minor active agreements together:
ALLIANCE ; MARIAGE ; LAND ACCESS (for me only) ; INDEPENDENCE WARRANTY +
Candar sharing a part of his commercial prod, thats 5 active deals existing now between us ;
and 6th, influence them as top8 Great Power nation and get 5trust points earned there now.
...but i dont see how i can go further by diplomacy, u see ?

so, how can i do yet to get these damn 8missing points i still need, reach +61 trust vs -60, and get their vassalization ( and so, reach my annexion objective of Candar 10years later).....
have u an idea or similar xps to share and able to help me ?


details (in french) on screenie here down.
thanks

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1154170900

 

[Dominion]

Vassalizing Candar is a bad idea and the +1 dip rep you get from the mission (I think it was +1DR... doesn't matter) isn't worth it.

Either way, best bet is always to increase your dip rep. Trust works too, but only gives you 1 per 5, which is incredibly inefficient.

 

[kilen2015]

Vassalizing Candar is a bad idea and the +1 dip rep you get from the mission (I think it was +1DR... doesn't matter) isn't worth it.

i forget to mention, its not for a mission.

Trust works too, but only gives you 1 per 5, which is incredibly inefficient.

indeed, +25inf pts from great power gave me 5trust only, its mingy.


i want to vassalize them asap coz i already busy my 4 diplo-relations with 4 alliances (Tunis, Crimea, Candar here, and Onoyuglu or something like that on my eastern border - 3blue provinces)
and i need more contacts with REAL military powers or with small nations i can vassalize & annex in 10or11years, but these both ones, specialy Candar slows me down with these damn 8trust points missing...

so, i would like to vassalize Onoyuglu & Candar asap, may Onoyuglu will be conquered later by Mammelouk or the other big one between them & Timourides huge empire in Persia, but actually my best chance between both is to obtain a vassal agreement by Candar...

and as i already have +200 now with Candar, no way to act neither there, for me and by myself...

so, i would like to know:
do the trust will continue to increase during next years and give me these 8 damn points i am missing yet to send them the request of vassalization ?
and also, if i allow them free mil access of any other naval base access, is there a chance it affects also trust countdown between us on long term ? (even if i must pay 1$/month for, but i must be sure it works before !)
... or any other valuable solution, but by diplomacy only, i did not spend such time with diplomates + gave them this province, plus payed 40$ for influence to finaly need to cancel all my alliance with and the rest, to invade them by classic way some 10years later... lol

i really hope there still exist a diplo solution, even just by being patient, but idk if trust-countdown together will continue to increase or not, etc...

its really just for few things, there must be a solution, by a way or an other... but idk know wich (and i hope there is !? lol)

 

[Dominion]

As I said, trust is 1 per 5.
Next step depends if you have the DLC, but in the ledger (rightclick nation > d) you should see your favors. Since you're Ottos to Candar you should get 1 favor per year, 10 favors = 5 trust.
In short: No. Maximum you can get out of trust is +10 and you already have some.

Diplomatic Reputation is your best bet. Especially if it's only 8 points.

Economy compared to you is another modifier you can tackle. The bigger you get the lower it gets. Conquer some more, keep them happy, invest favors.

Easiest path is probably to grab a mission that'll give you +1DR and to hire a DR advisor. Or to pick diplomatic ideas for the +2. Or to fill Influence in case you haven't gotten the +2 from that group already.

Long story short: Vassalizing Candar is a waste of time and you shouldn't do it in the future. Diplovassalization is weak in general.

 

[kilen2015]

Economy compared to you is another modifier you can tackle. The bigger you get the lower it gets. Conquer some more, keep them happy, invest favors.

great, thx, i will aim that, seems to be my best chance...
i'll late the idea then and continue to expand (since i conquered Karaman, wich had conquered Dulkakir previously, i have a border with Alep and i can claim it... it can be a solution, probably enough economy there to earn these 8missing points) (y)

and yep, all DLCs active (90%, missing some of soundtracks or books, but all main DLCs, i have).

thx for help !
++

 

[CplKatie]

You should be threatening war on all your reclaimable cores. Once they are OPM's declare on them for an easy snag. Reconquest is such a low aggression expansion hit that its pointless to diplo annex them. Dulkidir and Ramazan are your two targets for diplo annexation at the start. My usual moves are to follow the missions for actual wars. City of world desire-Levant-Mesopotamia. Then I release a tiny persia province from that and start reconquesting their cores from Timmy. Rinse and repeat on large vassals you can release and reclaim for. All the while threatening war while waiting for your reserves to come back for easy expansion.

 

[gia257]

10 guarantee, 10 offer access, 25 gift, 15 subsidies, 25 royal marriage, 50 alliance, 10 transfer power, 100 diplomat, those are the ones you can expect to pull off, besides you can share rival, or kill their rebels, recapture provinces

 

[Dominion]

10 guarantee, 10 offer access, 25 gift, 15 subsidies, 25 royal marriage, 50 alliance, 10 transfer power, 100 diplomat, those are the ones you can expect to pull off, besides you can share rival, or kill their rebels, recapture provinces

Those are opinion modifiers, not vassalization modifiers.

 

[gia257]

Those are opinion modifiers, not vassalization modifiers.

oh, does land access give modifiers with dlc or something? it only gives opinion here

 

[Dominion]

oh, does land access give modifiers with dlc or something? it only gives opinion here

Nah, but he said

and as i already have +200 now with Candar, no way to act neither there, for me and by myself.

So increasing their opinion of him doesn't do him any good anymore. He's already maxed.

He was asking for vassalization modifiers because he had a pretty huge malus for an early game (-65) which came from "Economic base compared to" and may even "Naval Strength".

Most commonly used vassalization modifiers are economic strength, military strength, naval strength and diplomatic reputation. Ofc alongside with opinion and several others.
But as I said, he already had opinion maxed out, so it won't do him any good to increase it any further.

 

[gia257]

yeah it is way harder to get those modifiers to work when they arent already, easier to annex

 

[kilen2015]

You should be threatening war on all your reclaimable cores. Once they are OPM's declare on them for an easy snag. Reconquest is such a low aggression expansion hit that its pointless to diplo annex them. Dulkidir and Ramazan are your two targets for diplo annexation at the start. My usual moves are to follow the missions for actual wars. City of world desire-Levant-Mesopotamia. Then I release a tiny persia province from that and start reconquesting their cores from Timmy. Rinse and repeat on large vassals you can release and reclaim for. All the while threatening war while waiting for your reserves to come back for easy expansion.

yep absolutly, i did too.
in fact here, i get mission for Dulkakir and accomplished it + became allied with in first months.
then, Karaman DoWed them & i get involved in that war as ally of Dulkakir ;
but i signed an anticipated deal with Karaman to get money from them (i had my own plans outwhere, in Balkans, so defend Dulkakir bored me at that time).
but next of our limited agreement, step by step, Karaman reversed advance Dulkakir had in their war to finaly totally annex Dulkakir few years later ! lol
so, my help in earlier war wasnt enough, i shouldnt had trust inDulkakir ability to end the war alone...

and about Ramazan, i have been robbished by Mamelouk and i did a SO stupid mystake myself also:
i had alliance with Ramazan + warranty + marriage + free access (+ commercial volume shared also) and i reached +182 diplo-relation with diplomates (waiting +190 to vassalize them, as usual)...
then there, bad surprise !
Ramazan cancels commercial volume shared, and become vassal of someonelse !
i checked and realized Mamelouk did exactly the same i did, and reached +190 few months earlier than me... lol
i didnt matched that, i didnt see at that time Ramazan was ally with Mamelouk also (i knew this trick with England vs Castilla to take Navarre before Castilla does, but i didnt know for Mamelouks & Ramazan ! lol ).
and when i analyzed that next,
i realized i just needed to spend ONLY 6$ to influence Ramazan with +25 (as Great Power) to largely take advance on mamelouks and vassalize Ramazan on time, etc.
but as i didnt id, at that time, there was a race between Ottomans & Mamelouk... i just simply took my time to step by step influence Ramazan with a diplomate and lost the race !
(sooo stupid ! lol)

yet though, after, it finaly helped me to have a border now with Mamelouk and be able to aim Alep in first war i will do vs Mamelouks in following years, etc... (so, MAYBE, these 2 series of events will favorize me for next, i will see...?)

but i do too, i follow & choose missions carefully also. (y)

in this campaign, i expanded more on Balkans than Levant & Turkey, even if i already aimed that region first in previous tries...

here, i have been at war with Byzance & Serbia (after Albania in 1444) immediatly or very fast,
and still continue to expand in Balkans since, where are my best opportunities actually (and as i get alliance with easy targets of Candar or Onoyuglu in th east, etc).

...last both war was to take Ragusa (+ 2 provinces from Bosnia then Ragusa earned in a war together earlier, etc) ;
and now i just ended to conquer Karaman in central turkey...

next steps are Valachia/Bosnia/Serbia (Bosnia & Serbia allied together but isolated from others and without other supports, and Valachia totally isolated without any diplo link).
since last weeks of my war with Karaman, they created all 3 a coalition against me, but stuning, didnt attacked me since (i am already few years later after end war of Karaman actually).
so, i get time to send back my 3 armies (55regs) on their 3 borders, and next step is to invade these 3 weak nations, starting there with Valachia 1st (still a bit worry by surexpansion of course, i dont want Venezia or Austria become next ones to create coalition vs me, etc... so i take my time)

but for the rest, it happened pretty well till here (for a VH level i mean ! ...must not be forgot, moving marge is short)
i will continue to try to expand on the east by diplomacy (such as i can) in this campaign i think, its best plan for this time (and asap attack Mamelouk for Alep), etc...

...thats the big intrest with Ottomans (and probably why they are one of most easiest nations to play with):
in first 100years of campaign, we have plenty of options ! (SUCH more than we have with others great powers, imo)
but still trapping and can easally fall appart pretty rapidly also ^^

i will stop my novel for now, sorry its a bit long.
i must do a break, comeback later (and will answer u back there). (y)

c u soon
++