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The specific Book I mentioned I cannot find (I really need to gather all my books together some day
), but it was a rather bland title, something like "Regional Independence Movements within the Kindgom of Yugoslavia". It is an older book (1960's-1970's) written by some British guy. I got it at a used book store in London a few years back. However, in looking for that book, I found one that I thought I lost. It is about Manchukuo, "Rays of the Rising Sun: Armed Forces of Japan's Asian Allies 1931-1945: Volume 1 China and Manchukuo", by Philip S. Jowett.
I also have one called "Macedonia's Secret Army: The IMRO Militia and Volunteer Battalions of Southwestern Macedonia 1943-1944", by Nick Trovsky.
Mushin Batur's pic I do not see. Please just copy the link to the original.
......
downloaded
They all seem good to me. Sweden has like 35 TTs and Vicky France 38 so India having more of them is just good. Remember that a country like India may be able to use up to ten TTs at once in later games
-My proposal for Nationalism Vietnam
-I have almost delete all vanilla tech team
-I will add and supply reference if your guy asking (some source not available in English )
Code:VIE;Name;Pic Name;Skill;Start Year;End Year;Speciality1;Speciality2;Speciality3;Speciality4;Speciality5;Speciality6;Speciality7;Speciality8;Speciality9;Speciality10;Speciality11;Speciality12;Speciality13;Speciality14;Speciality15;Speciality16;Speciality17;Speciality18;Speciality19;Speciality20;Speciality21;Speciality22;Speciality23;Speciality24;Speciality25;Speciality26;Speciality27;Speciality28;Speciality29;Speciality30;Speciality31;Speciality32;x 14303;Nha Trang Maritime Academy;T_VIE_Nha_Trang_Maritime_Academy;4;1952;1970;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_engineering;naval_training;seamanship;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14304;Da Lat Military Academy;T_VIE_Da_Lat_Military_Academy;2;1930;1954;centralized_execution;small_unit_tactics;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14305;Nguyen Van Hinh;T_VIE_Nguyen_Van_Hinh;2;1936;1955;decentralized_execution;piloting;fighter_tactics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14306;Do Cao Tri;T_VIE_Do_Cao_Tri;3;1955;1970;small_unit_tactics;combined_arms_focus;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14307;Ho Tan Quyen;T_VIE_Ho_Tan_Quyen;5;1955;1963;seamanship;naval_training;small_taskforce_tactics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14308;Indochina University;T_VIE_Indochina_University;1;1930;1956;management;chemistry;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14309;Indochina Bank;T_VIE_Indochina_Bank;1;1930;1954;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14310;Viet Nam National Military Academy;T_VIE_Viet_Nam_National_Military_Academy;4;1955;1970;small_unit_tactics;piloting;training;naval_training;decentralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14311;Indochine Raiload Company;T_VIE_Indochine_Raiload_Company;1;1930;1954;mechanics;management;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14312;Thu Duc Military Academy;T_VIE_Thu_Duc_Military_Academy;3;1955;1970;combined_arms_focus;centralized_execution;individual_courage;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14313;The University of Saigon;T_VIE_The_University_of_Saigon;4;1957;1970;management;chemistry;electronics;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14314;Viet Nam National Bank;T_VIE_Viet_Nam_National_Bank;4;1955;1970;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14315;Vu Quoc Thuc;T_VIE_Vu_Quoc_Thuc;4;1956;1962;management;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14316;An Hao Paper Factory;T_VIE_Nha_Trang_Maritime_Academy;4;1961;1970;chemistry;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14317;U.S. Army Construction Agency, Viet Nam;T_VIE_U.S._Army_Construction_Agency_Viet_Nam;6;1963;1970;management;technical_efficiency;general_equipment;electronics;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14318;David Lilienthal;T_VIE_David_Lilienthal;6;1963;1970;management;mathematics;industrial_engineering;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14319;U.S. Agency for International Development, Viet Nam;T_VIE_U.S._Agency_for_International_Development_Viet_Nam;6;1961;1970;industrial_engineering;general_equipment;chemistry;management;artillery;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14320;Republic of Vietnam Navy ;T_VIE_Republic_of_Vietnam_Navy_Forces;4;1952;1970;small_taskforce_tactics;centralized_execution;naval_engineering;naval_training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14321;MAAG Viet Nam;T_VIE_MAAG_Viet_Nam;4;1950;1960;artillery;training;general_equipment;industrial_engineering;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14322;U.S. Military Assistance Command, Viet Nam;T_VIE_U.S._Military_Assistance_Command_Viet_Nam;4;1962;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;bomber_tactics;piloting;naval_training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14323;Ba Son Shipyard;T_VIE_Ba_Son_Shipyard;1;1930;1954;naval_engineering;industrial_engineering;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14324;Ba Son Shipyard;T_VIE_Ba_Son_Shipyard2;4;1955;1970;technical_efficiency;naval_engineering;naval_artillery;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14325;Air Viet Nam;T_VIE_Air_Viet_Nam;3;1930;1970;aeronautics;technical_efficiency;electronics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14326;U.S. Pacific Air Forces;T_VIE_U.S._Pacific_Air_Forces;5;1961;1970;rocketry;aeronautics;artillery;chemistry;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14327;Mining and Plantation Industry Facility ;T_VIE_Mining_and_Plantation_Industry_Facility ;1;1930;1954;industrial_engineering;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x 14328;Cam Tiem Power Plant;T_VIE_Cam_Tiem_Power_Plant;1;1930;1954;electronics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
1.Nha Trang Maritime Academy 1952-1970
skill 4 - small_taskforce_tactics;naval_engineering;naval_training;seamanship
reference : http://haisu.tripod.com/index.htm Vietnamese source
2.Da Lat Military Academy 1930-1954
skill 2 - centralized_execution;small_unit_tactics;training
reference: http://aosauvuon.fortunecity.net/ndsl-tvb.htm Vietnamese source
3.Nguyen Van Hinh 1936 - 1955
skill 2 - decentralized_execution;piloting;fighter_tactics
reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Van_Hinh
4.Do Cao Tri 1955 - 1970
skill 3 - small_unit_tactics;combined_arms_focus;training
reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Cao_Tri
5.Ho Tan Quyen 1955 - 1963
skill 5 - seamanship;naval_training;small_taskforce_tactics
reference http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hồ_Tấn_Quyền
6.Indochina University 1930 - 1956
skill 1 - management;chemistry;mathematics
ref http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viện_Đại_học_Đông_Dương
7. Viet Nam National Military Academy 1955 - 1970
skill 3 - small_unit_tactics;piloting;training;naval_training;decentralized_execution
ref
8.Indochine Raiload Company 1930 - 1954
skill 1 - mechanics;management;industrial_engineering
ref
9.Thu Duc Military Academy 1955 - 1970
skill 3 - combined_arms_focus;centralized_execution;individual_courage
ref
10.The University of Saigon 1957 - 1970
skill 4 - management;chemistry;electronics;mathematics
ref
11.Vu Quoc Thuc 1956 - 1962
skill 4 - management;industrial_engineering
ref
12.U.S. Army Construction Agency Vietnam 1963 - 1970
skill 6 - management;technical_efficiency;general_equipment;electronics;mechanics
ref
13.David Lilienthal 1963 - 1970
skill 6 - management;mathematics;industrial_engineering
ref
14.U.S. Agency for International Development Vietnam 1961 - 1970
skill 6 - industrial_engineering;general_equipment;chemistry;management;artillery
ref
15.Republic of Vietnam Navy 1952 - 1970
skill 4 - small_taskforce_tactics;centralized_execution;naval_engineering;naval_training
ref
16.MAAG Vietnam 1950 - 1960
skill 4 - artillery;training;general_equipment;industrial_engineering;mechanics
ref
17.U.S. Military Assistance Command Vietnam 1962 - 1970
skill 4 -combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;bomber_tactics;piloting;naval_training
ref
18.Ba Son Shipyard 1930 - 1954
skill 2 - naval_engineering;industrial_engineering;mechanics
ref
19.Ba Son Shipyard 1955 - 1970 <= duplicated in order to simulate the aid of US navy
skill 4 - technical_efficiency;naval_engineering;naval_artillery
20.Air Viet Nam 1930 - 1970
skill 3 - aeronautics;technical_efficiency;electronics
ref
21.U.S. Pacific Air Forces 1961 - 1970 <= representative for the US air force in South Viet Nam
skill 5 - rocketry;aeronautics;artillery;chemistry
ref
pic : later
22.Mining and Plantation Industry Facility 1930 - 1954 <= I can not find exactly company name under French rule in IndoChina, but I have find out the pic that the french have build a lot of plantation and mine so I add this team.
skill 1 - industrial_engineering;mechanics
23.Cam Tiem Power Plant 1930 - 1954
skill 1 - electronic
There is a policy of one university TT to each country. One military academy per country should also be enough, if it’s not to very special and essential ones. No other country has more than one anyways.
I’m some skeptic about these teams:
21.U.S. Pacific Air Forces 1961 - 1970 <= representative for the US air force in South Viet Nam
skill 5 - rocketry;aeronautics;artillery;chemistry
ref
pic : later
20.Air Viet Nam 1930 - 1970
skill 3 - aeronautics;technical_efficiency;electronics
ref
Why just not include the Vietnam air force instead? Did the Air Viet Nam actually posse technological knowhow on how to build and develop new military aircraft models? An air force TT is traditionally a doctrine team not obtaining the capacities of chemistry, artillery, rocketry and aeronautics.
U.S. Army Construction Agency Vietnam 1963 - 1970
skill 6 - management;technical_efficiency;general_equipment; electronics;mechanics
ref
14.U.S. Agency for International Development Vietnam 1961 - 1970
skill 6 - industrial_engineering;general_equipment;chemistry ;management;artillery
ref
Skeptic about having agencies as TTs, in any case with general equipment, mechanics and artillery as specialties. I’m aware of that the US assisted Vietnam with new technology in many ways, but still. These TTs also makes the game less flexible in the case of a-historical scenarios. What if the Japanese player releases Vietnam as a puppet for instance…
17.U.S. Military Assistance Command Vietnam 1962 - 1970
skill 4 -combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;bomber_tact ics;piloting;naval_training
ref
Principally skeptic to this one too. Maybe this one can emerge in an event when the Vietnam War start, IF South Vietnam are supported by the US
-Two University but one start and end in 1956, the second only start in 1957 so in general => still one University in the time line
-Yes I knew but reason why we have Nationalist Viet Nam is because the French and US, without them, South Viet Nam can not exit.
-I have one proposal that may solve this problem for all colony country
-First: we will assume that every country when get independent will get some tech team like: general defense, economic council or some thing like that ?=> I mean the tech team that was own by the state will usually have the start date at their independent date
-For example: North VN was founded after 1945 => their team like University was founded by them in 1945 too
-But in HoI. those country can be founded in 1936 (in theory)
=> so why don't we set all the tech team that was own by the start date at the possible date of their independent?(1936)
-Beside, another example, also North VN (founded in 1945), they build first chemistry factory in 1957 (12 year after their independent)
=>so we just simply set their chemistry teach team start year 12 after their possible independent day? (it will start in 1936+12 = 1948)
-For those tech team that was not own by the state, I suggest still keep their historical start day
=> By this way, all colony will have more tech team at early time, It's also bring some sense of historical?
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As disccussed earlier I'm against high skilled tech teams just because some major assisted the state. Blueprints and events should represent this.
TTs should represent what a country can do on its own.
Industry is usually present in the country even during colonial time, thus there could be always TTs for the 1936-independence period.
And I'm definitely against names like US agency. Viet Name should hav evietnameese TTs not US or French TTs.
TTs should represent what a country can do on its own.
Industry is usually present in the country even during colonial time, thus there could be always TTs for the 1936-independence period.
And I'm definitely against names like US agency. Viet Name should hav evietnameese TTs not US or French TTs.
-I see your point , But I assume that the problem can not be solve if we follow your strict standard.
-The main problem here is HoI, it can not capable of simulate any situation => and to solve this, I think we have two solution, First by modding or second by recoding HoI => I see that we do not have resource for that at this time.
-It not a fake name, It an organization that was design by US in help South VN. If you want referencing, I can provide that. Moreover, In the case of Viet Nam, South VN can not be exit without US or French involve, It just like how can a baby exit without his mother (clone)??
-For north Viet Nam, the Viet Minh movement and it preceded was already exit before 1936 without any help or aid from foreign power (Viet Minh only received some arm from US in 1944, and more then after 1949 (when C China was founded). Before that time, they fight Japan and French by them-self => so yes they may exit event without foreign help. But for South Viet Nam, I think it's impossible.
-All of their industry was basically build by French, If you denied US agency, I also have to put out the tech team that was originally from French?
=> It seem South VN got no tech team at all
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Events can be suggested.
HoI is about alternate history. Germany can very well conquer asia and then release nationalist Viet Nam. It would be equivalent to the real French and American backed state, except that it would be German backed.
Try to find industry and local arm/ammunition production. If France set up a mine or an agricultural combine, a tractor factory whatever it is still Vietnamese.
If they just shipped loads of arms to the country then it is lend-lease and should be event based.
HoI is about alternate history. Germany can very well conquer asia and then release nationalist Viet Nam. It would be equivalent to the real French and American backed state, except that it would be German backed.
Try to find industry and local arm/ammunition production. If France set up a mine or an agricultural combine, a tractor factory whatever it is still Vietnamese.
If they just shipped loads of arms to the country then it is lend-lease and should be event based.
-ok
-So US help VN build factory, air base, naval port. Will you accept it as their tech team for industry?
-For arm, aircraft, tank, ship => I am afraid that South VN produce nothing of them
I see your arguments.
The policy here though has been to keep all new TTs as indigenous, national authentic and flexible as possible. Keep in mind that South Vietnam/Nationalist Vietnam represents all possible non-communist formations of Vietnam. Like if Vietnam first enters independence as a Japanese puppet or in a scenario where the Axis have defeated both France and the US.
I understand that the US provided the mere existence of South Vietnam, as well as all of her (up to date) technological prerequisites. But the very same did the Soviet Union to a lot of countries, and they have not soviet agencies and alike as TTs. Post war Cuba and Ethiopia especially, but also the Warszawa pact countries should stand as good examples to this.
The Vietnamese TTs can and should not represent American intervention during the Vietnam War. It can make the game madly unbalanced and historical inflexible.
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All of arms industry or potential arms industry can be tech teams. So if anything was produced in Vietnam track down who did it and add it as a team.
Industry and military facilities built in Vietnam by the American is not adequate as Vietnamese TTs. Same goes for arms produced in the US and Shipped to Vietnam, it cannot represent Vietnamese TTs. South Korea does not have any American-based TT either.
EDIT: If the American facilities are built by Vitenamese companies, these companies can of course do as tech teams
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I might disagree. If a shipyard is build by Americans, but the shipyard itself is in Viet Name. Fine. Just do not call it "American built shipyard in Viet Nam".
Industry is industry no matter who are the investors.
Many of the Albanian industry was built by the Italians. In the colonies practically everything is built by the colonial masters. However these industry would still be used after independence.
Even if arms, tank and aircrafts are produces abroad there should be ammunition plants, spare parts factories and repair workshops. These can be TTs.
Industry is industry no matter who are the investors.
Many of the Albanian industry was built by the Italians. In the colonies practically everything is built by the colonial masters. However these industry would still be used after independence.
Even if arms, tank and aircrafts are produces abroad there should be ammunition plants, spare parts factories and repair workshops. These can be TTs.
-OK
-I will try to dig more stuff but I am not promise anything
o-Your guy make it even harder for me and South VN (Just like in real life, South VN got hard time and disappear :rofl: )
Yes, if there is something indigenous about it. Indigenous workers, an indigenous management or whatever. In most cases this is the case so it’s not really a problem
Shell is a company present in a lot of countries for example, and a lot of these countries have indeed Shell as a tech team even though it is a California based company.
Just reading this “and it was highly dependent on outside military sources because there were no indigenous arms factories of any importance in Vietnam”, I’m acknowledging that finding Vietnamese defense industry tech-teams may be quite a challenge. I have also learned that present day Vietnam keeps info about any industry relevant for its armed forces in secret. Is this true?
Here is some info on the defense industry in the north though…
http://www.viet-studies.info/kinhte/vietnam_defense_industry.htm
And here:
“China's attack on Vietnam in 1979 compounded industrial problems by badly damaging important industrial facilities in the North, particularly a major steel plant and an apatite mine
National leadership objectives during the immediate postwar period included consolidating factories and workshops
in the North that had been scattered and hidden during the war to improve their chances of survival and nationalizing banks and major factories in the South to bring the financial and industrial sectors under state control.”
Something must have existed in South too though. Like ammunition and small arms manufactures as well as workshops – if not building, but repairing American equipment.
Here is a picture of tractor manufacturing in Vietnam
-For the north, I already have all that satisfy your guy's requirement
, you do not need to worry about that-But for the South,
-For the north, I already have all that satisfy your guy's requirement
-But for the South,
I think then, start working on your proposal for the North then, obviously the materials will be more availible to you.
For the South I see both sides of the Argument here. The South was propped up to a large extent by the US (although North was given much support by the Chinese and Soviets). I think Easy, see what you can come up with as a proposal, then you guys can get together, and see what can be used from both, and hopefully come up with a plan that is satisfying to everyone.
Also, Cardus will most likely have the bottom line as well.
University of Toronto - Canada
The University of Toronto technology team should probably be rated higher possibly at the expense of another Canadian tech team for balance reasons. It also should not have mechanics or related skills because the entire engineering faculty was teaching rather than research oriented until the 1950's.
By 1937, the Banting Institute at the University of Toronto had some of the worlds top biologists and biochemists. That certain should make it far more efficient at researching say the chemical agriculture technologies. In particular:
Hermann Otto Laurenz Fischer (1888-1960), born in Würzburg, studied under Knorr at Jena and became a well-known carbohydrate chemist. After teaching at Berlin, he went to the University of Basel in 1934, Banting Institute at the University of Toronto in 1937 and the University of California at Berkeley in 1948. His name is associated with the Grosheintz-Fischer-Reissert aldehyde synthesis and the Macdonald-Fischer degradation of aldoses.
Is someone who is considered in giving the University of California a high tech rating, but the University of Toronto has him for 11 of the first 15 years of the game.
I think something along the lines of:
6 or 7- Chemistry, Management, Mathematics
makes a lot more sense.
The University of Toronto technology team should probably be rated higher possibly at the expense of another Canadian tech team for balance reasons. It also should not have mechanics or related skills because the entire engineering faculty was teaching rather than research oriented until the 1950's.
By 1937, the Banting Institute at the University of Toronto had some of the worlds top biologists and biochemists. That certain should make it far more efficient at researching say the chemical agriculture technologies. In particular:
Hermann Otto Laurenz Fischer (1888-1960), born in Würzburg, studied under Knorr at Jena and became a well-known carbohydrate chemist. After teaching at Berlin, he went to the University of Basel in 1934, Banting Institute at the University of Toronto in 1937 and the University of California at Berkeley in 1948. His name is associated with the Grosheintz-Fischer-Reissert aldehyde synthesis and the Macdonald-Fischer degradation of aldoses.
Is someone who is considered in giving the University of California a high tech rating, but the University of Toronto has him for 11 of the first 15 years of the game.
I think something along the lines of:
6 or 7- Chemistry, Management, Mathematics
makes a lot more sense.
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