Help, Complaints, etc. World War I

[unmerged(7177)]

My bad boy rating seems to be 68 ????

Okay, here is an update:
(a very loose summary)

(Remember, I haven't declared war since 1501!!!!!)
(I have not been at peace 1 month since 1510!!!!!)

Jan 1510- Spain, Scotland, Palatinate, Lorraine declare war on me
Heavy fighting in Pfalz, Mainsz, Alsace, Spain, Palatinate, Austria shift powers

1512 Peace. I lose Alsace but gain 2 Palatinate Provinces.

Continuious Fighting with Spain, France, Venice and Turkey, thru 1530 when I once agin began a log.
1530- Turkey/Spain/Loraine/Genoa
Turks winning barely. I am kicking Spain's ass.
1531- Turkey gives me 250 gold. I am fighting all of the ohters and now Venice and her allies, Pommerania and Teutonic Order.
I annexed Lorraine, Spain made peace. I took Luxemborg and Cologne.
1533- Venice, Teutonic Order, Prussia, Pommerania, France, Papal States
1534 France takes Helevitia- Peace.
1536- WAr with Turkey. I take Bosnia
1539- Hessen goes idiotic, declares war with us. I destroy their one province.
1540- France/ Hannover/Spain/Venice "Beat up Austria Year"
1541- France Peace thanks to my allies, I have Helevetia returned.
1542- I annex Hannover. The hanseatic League declares war as does Brandenburg.
1542- Continuious Peasant Rebolts in 5 Provinces WHEN I HAVE +3 STABILITY!!!!! Turkey declares War
1543- Current Allies: Baden (3 provinces), Hungary (15??), Bohemia (7??), Tuscany (2), Saxony (2) (Nearly had Poland, but they went with Georgia) I now own most of the middle of Europe like Germany in WWI.
1543- Spain Peace. I get 2 Provinces. Gave Turkey Bosnia.
1545- Demark, England, Sweeden,Russia,Vinland Declare war.

(please Ponder why I need cheats.)

PS- Throught this period I had an ongoing war with Genoa which I resolved by giving the m250 gold because I was tired of it. They kept invading my sea Provinces

I also took 1 Brandenburg Province and 1 Holstein Province and many Spanish ones other than the ones I listed including a COT.

 

[Shadowstrike]

DoWs, and annexing (provinces, but especailly nations) hikes up your badboy horribly.

 

[unmerged(7177)]

I've only declared 3 wars but I have annexerd many, many, many countries. But all but 3 of them declared war on me first! I shouldn't have had a higher bad boy rating because of it?

 

[unmerged(1047)]

Most BB points come from peace treaty effects, not declarations of war. If you gain territory, you gain BB points (generally), though details vary. DoWs, if I recall, only cost BB points in situations where you also take stability hits, and by roughly the same proportions (i.e. a -1 stab hit won't give nearly as much BB points as a -4).


I play France a lot, so allow me some advice here...

France should be playable without any cheating. Just SLOW DOWN. For one, you should have an annual income in the 200-300 coins range to start with. After adding tax collectors everywhere - even if you incur a few points of inflation - that should be plenty to build armies and fleets with that will meet your needs. Judges can also be beneficial - if nothing else, they reduce revolt risk, which allows you to fight longer wars without worrying as much about war-exhaustion revolts.

I usually don't declare my first war until roughly 1497-8. I don't conquer in Europe beyond the CB provinces at this stage (sometimes ever), so I don't take big stability hits or get lots of badboy points. By 1525-30, you should be able to capture all of the French CB territories (though I usually don't bother with Flandres, as you normally lose it to the Dutch revolts anyway). This includes, if possible, diploannexing Lorraine rather than conquering it. (I normally use that one start-game diplomat to bring Lorraine into my alliance in Jan 1492.) After I have all the CB territories except Flandres, and sometimes including Savoy and Nice, I crash navy tech to level 16, build a shipyard, and start building colonies. (You also get quite a few explorers in the 1530-60 period, and colonial dynamism starting, I believe, around 1560.)

The big key is not to DOW anyone until you've got forces in position and decently set up for the invasion. Also, never fight multiple wars at the same time, and never DOW anyone unless you're at +3 stability (this will ensure at least some lag between most wars). Also don't DOW anyone during the five-year peace treaty period. (You'll know, as you take a -5 stability hit for this.) And DOW'ing someone just after their alliance expires is also a good strategy (as you catch them without any allies.) If anyone declares war on you that doesn't have any of your CB provinces, just fight them to a neutral or small-tribute peace.

Against Spain, 25/5/10 groups generally work well, and you can afford three or four of them easily by 1500 (maybe a tad later if you're doing tax collectors before this). Generally one or two near Paris, one near FC, and one in Languedoc or Guyenne, is a good setup. Just beware of an English/Spanish alliance. (They usually start the game with this, but it generally breaks down as soon as the Spanish or English DOW anyone.) Using this strategy you should be able to gain 2, perhaps even 3, provinces from Spain per war. Taking the... what is it, 6, 7?... of your CB provinces they start with should take no more than 3 or 4 such wars. And you'll have CBs for all of them, and thus lower stability and BB hits.

Against England you need a fleet with transport capacity of at least 40, based in or near Normandy (That can carry one 25/5/10 group. Preplace this fleet, loaded, off Anglia before you DOW them and it will be a short war - you invade Anglia and Calais right as you DOW them and once they both fall you're home free. If you wait till after 1510 or so to do this, you even get some exploring done for you!) Once you have Calais, I would not mess with England any further - unless for some reason you're propping up Scotland or trying to conquer Ireland. And either of these can be done much later. (Ireland is actually pretty nice to grab after you have navy tech 5 and lots of cash, as it has 3 fish provinces and building naval manufactories there can be a nice boost.)

The reason you're probably getting ganged up on is the BB points. By going after a lot of little countries outside your CB shield area, you can rack them up very quickly. I wouldn't take these on in rapid motion... maybe take Helvetia or Baden or Wurtemberg or Milan (or all of them), but certainly not more than one of them inside of 10 years. Savoy, I usually want... but as they start allied to you, it's often worth at least trying to diploannex them, and patience can be a virtue!

Also... CB shield provinces never have nationalism, so you won't have to worry much about revolts. (The exception here is the "Dutch Nationalism", which is treated as an event effect. Flandres will go to around 20-30% and Hainaut, Luxembourg and Artois to around 4% during this period, until the Dutch declare independence. And you will likely lose Flandres unless you station a large army there. This is why I don't usually bother conquering it to begin with. Also, you'll have a wave of revolts around... I think it's 1562... which will severely hamper efforts to stop the Dutch revolts. This symbolizes a civil war in France in that time period, which also historically happened.)

Keep in mind I don't advocate fighting limited wars where you don't leave your CB provinces - far from it. Those punitive expeditions to Anglia and Castile can be valuable in terms of maps and peace treaty points. I just wouldn't take any except CB provinces in peace treaties.

One more thing - if you want to fight relatively bloodless (for you) wars in Germany or Italy... get a vassal and then DOW the country on the other side of your vassal. Don't call on your allies to fight with you in the war. You should be able to pass through your vassal's territory - but your enemy can't. This works very well when used against Milan, Thuringia and Wurtemberg specifically (using Baden and Savoy as vassals). Just make sure their allies don't have direct access to you either. (What works really well here is then taking money tribute for the peace settlement... you can really rack up VP's and a bit of money this way - though these nations don't tend to have a lot of money.)

 

[unmerged(3748)]

Nice advice, Sheridan. I think the advice you need most, DarkCloud, is the following: Slow down and plan ahead.
Dont just act according to a spur of the moment - think your plans and actions through. I know you cant account for everything (eg, unexpected wars), but if you take it a bit easier, im sure you'll be able to play without cheats as well. Especially with France! Try it... much more fun!

 

[unmerged(5314)]

Originally posted by Silent Eagle


Countries declare war on you regardless of your common borders with them. Hell, ive seen Eire attack the Teutonic order or the knights... The borders have little to do with it...

There's a nuance here, I was talking about a BB war. I don't suppose Eire or the Knights were a badboy. If they were, in my experience there has to be a well-defined reason for DoW. Either a) they had an ally at war with them; b) adjacent trading posts in Africa; c) played by a human player or d) it's one of the crazy patches. I agree that a regular war can happen between anyone - take that time Scotland and the Order slugged it out in a naval assault frenzy on each other's shores. The funny thing was that they both fought the war on Spanish money which I paid them to do something totally different: like oppose England and Poland In October, 5 Scottish ships would come through Skagerrak and land in Livonia; in March, the Knights would land in Lothian and get slaughtered. 20 sordid years

 

[unmerged(1047)]

Thanks muches for the compliment, Silent Eagle.

Hey, DarkCloud, etcetera... need any tips on other countries? I'm sure we can rustle up an expert or two on just about any country you can think of...


P.S. This is my 300th post, so I'm now Captain Sheridan. muhahahah! (Course, this is probably only funny to those of you who are Babylon 5 fans too.)

 

[unmerged(3748)]

Sorry, im no fan of that series But congrats anyway hehe
Sure we can concoct some expert advice on most countries

 

[unmerged(7177)]

Thank you for the France advice- I';ll use it if I play france
Actually in that game I was Austria....

However, I can use the 25/5/10 and the 40 transport numbers in any game. Thank you.

So... should I not take any provinces in any war and cease my expansion even if I have to give 250 gold to every agressor?

Oh, and nearly every country has a CB on Austria
At least france does... for some reason??? I never attacked them? I did however, conquer a few catholic allies of theirs

 

[unmerged(7177)]

Oh, and I've been trying to play, I even printed out some strategic maps, but since I haven't declared war and have been continually attacked. I really cannot concentrate on anything except revolts and war. I suppose I'll pay off my enemies, for the time, but every 10 years Venice declares war for no reason whatsoever. (Now they are down to Venice and 2 Islands ) Also, I have no navy. My coastal provinces are always in revolt

I need to cheat- Everyone is at war with my country--- If that ends, however, I can play all right. So far I have spent 15,000 gold in 15 years

 

[unmerged(1047)]

France's CB on Austria is probably for territorial reasons. France's CB shields cover Alsace, which in the IGC starts as Austrian.

As far as the wars - if you can manage, try fighting them off to a white peace (usually AIs will give this if you capture one territory). It'll save you money. Once you have peace with everyone the BB wars should stop (the BB wars tend to only be declared when you're already at war.)

As far as further DOWs goes, if you butter up your neighbors so that you have significant positive relations, they usually won't go after you. The BB factor could break this though. But butter them up as if you were trying to ally with them (actually maybe not a bad idea, I once diploannexed Venice...) and it should get them off your back. They undoubtedly have a territory CB on you for taking, what, Istria and Illyria, at least.

Completely halting expansion might not be a bad idea for a short time, if you're trying to stabalize revolts and such (nationalism only lasts 30 years, after all), but in the long term, if you're planning world conquest as you seem to be... As previously mentioned, though, for Austria diplomacy works really well for expansion. I've seen Austrias triple in size by diploannexing only. (Bohemia, Bavaria, and Hungary are the usual targets, and once in an IGC I diploannexed Moldavia and Serbia too.)

 

[unmerged(5679)]

It would be nice to see some screenshots of your Austria, DarkCloud.

Btw, I was once told by my father not to cheat, because then the game would become boring. And he is right about that...

 

[unmerged(7177)]

I seem to be horrible at diploannexing, my allies don't want to do it, then they become even less than vassals
But the war halt worked. I halted for 2 years and resolved my affairs until the Netherlanders decided to be idiots !!

Then I tried to annex Saxony, it failed, then they converted to Protestantism. I declared war on them because the jerks fell to +30 feeling... However:
1551
War- Turkey, Hanseatic, VEnice, Denamerk, Spain, TEutonic Order, Pommerania

1553 France/England/Genoa and their allies declare war

I paid off many to end the wars

Oh yes, I also found out why my provices were overrevolting- war exaustion was 10!

---
Oh yes, I may have some screenshots eventually
I am hopint to take the entire HRE and then move into colonization. When my money runs out, I can play the game straight. I can make 150 gold a turn now, I velive

 

[unmerged(5679)]

I'm looking forward to seeing those screenshots. Must be something like whole central-Europe!

 

[unmerged(1047)]

Sometimes if your relations are very good, and I think you have to have an RM, you can get random events that have the effect of diploannexations too. I got one last night playing a diploannexing Austria in which I picked up Milan (which had previously captured Mantua). I'd also annexed, by this point, Hungary and and Bohemia, and vassalized Venice and Bavaria. My only wars were very early on, where I captured the three eastern Venetian mainland provinces, including the Ragusa shipyard (this was not in IGC).

I have gotten these in the past (in different games) for Austria to inherit Hungary and Bohemia, I've had France inherit Lorraine, Genoa, Helvetia, and Savoy (not in the same game of course), Spain to inherit Austria, Venice to inherit Portugal, and once in an earlier-version IGC, the USA inherited Scotland.

 

[Barkdreg]

the dyniestical inheritance random event needs th folowing
-relations with country are 155 or above
-royal marriage
-same religion
in one IGC I was Burgundy and inherited Bohemia, I've had to conquer half of Germany to unite the two parts of my Empire

 

[unmerged(5679)]

Sounds familiar to me...I once just got Austria, being Burgundy in IGC. Only Helvetia in between, but they had a military alliance with Spain or something like that.

 

[unmerged(7177)]

About the screenshots- apologies, but is there an easier way to do them thank hitting "print screen" and pasting in paint? Because I have trouble toggling between the game and paint- thanks!
I'll try it that way... but it would be better if there was a good tool...

New report- I took Pommerania and one Danish province, and finally have all my wars resolved again. I am looking forward to not having to cheat and hopefully as my BB value goes down, I won't have to

-Still trying with annexing and failing... I think it has something to do with the BB rating?

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Originally posted by Silent Eagle


Countries declare war on you regardless of your common borders with them. Hell, ive seen Eire attack the Teutonic order or the knights... The borders have little to do with it...

To sharpen the point: countries will not DoW you if they can't reach your territory. If they have a sea port and any of your lands (including colonial) are on the coast, they are willing to attack, even though they might not know a sea route to reach you: but playing a landlocked country, you can keep a lot of people off your back just by making it impossible for them to get at you.

 

[unmerged(7225)]

My first GC (original) I played all the way through was with France, and I found something interesting about playing the "badboy". I played pretty much the same way that DarkCloud did: WarAnnexed a bunch of minor German states, became king BB by about mid 1500s, and only had about 15 total years of peace in the last 200 years of the game. The funny thing is, since I didn't realize how BB worked, I made sure that I gained territory in every war. I was in perpetual war for decades at a time, only paying for peace when my War Exhaustion got obnoxious (+6 to +7). I had colonized about 10-15 territories in north america and west africa, the REST of my territory was gained through peace negotiations.
To make a long story short: (too late)

Playing the Bad Boy can actually work to your advantage. Here was how I played france for like 200 years or so: Simply get a few belicose allies who can get you into alliance wars (I had Austria for a while... they were ALWAYS at war with Turkey). Austria gets in a war, you join the war with austria (no stab deductions for that) then the WHOLE WORLD declares war on you (no stab deductions). War annex any nation less than 3 territories, take capital and 2-3 provinces from all other nations, peace negotate for best provinces (always go after alliance leaders last) pay the last few countries when revolts really pick up. Use 5-year lull in wars to supress revolts, build colonies, build up armies ( I usually use 24-12-12 armies... expensive but effective). Using this strategy, I ruled northeastern spain, all of northern germany save Hansa capital, southern scandinavia, half of Poland, the Baltics, most of the black sea coast, all of north and west africa, and most of the middle east. My VPS were kinda small in diplomacy (I was like 10th place) but by military VPs were 2 orders of magnitude higher than 2nd place. I had maxed out my research about 50 years early, meaning I was taking my 700d monthly budget in cash every month (building 1 governor a year to control inflation) and was taking 4000d each January.