Hello Paradox! HOI3 Ministers Inquiry

[Mebsuta]

Hello community! First post here! Just got HOI3 recently under a reccomendation from a friend. Couldn't get HOI4 because my video ram doesn't fit the bill.

To the matter at hand. I've learned quite a bit of the game in a short time (first paradox interactive game I play, too) however there is one mechanic I still can not comprehend and need detailed explaination (please be aware that I am usually a console player, not often do I play on PC. Which means any explaination in the range of "just look at the code" or "enter this folder and change this setting" will not fit the bill as I am a novice on those things).

Ministers. I am playing as Finland. Trough savescum I have achieved to elect Lapuan Liike (2/10: Fascist) as ruling party. My new ministers all belong to that party. However... when clicking on the "statistics - misc. - politicians" page I can clearly see more ministers of fascist tendencies that are "Possible: no" despite a fascist party being elected and (over the period of 7 in-game years) having over 50 organization. In fact, should I want to replace ANY Lapuan Liike minister of my cabinet, there is no way to bring him/her back. Basically, I can NOT freely pick the ministers of my country's governing organized ideology. Why does this happen? What is the mechanic that determines minister availability if not ruling party? How comes I can not freely choose between Lapuan Liike ministers and instead have to stick with whatever Lapuan Liike minister the elections throw at me, and without even being able to reaquire ministers should I replace them?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Kovax]

Probably due to being a democracy with elections. A country with a Fascist party can generally freely choose candidates (although there may not be any alternatives in some cases), but countries with elected officials seem to have limits on who can be replaced, and by whom. It seems to vary by country to some extent, since I do recall at least one other country where I couldn't reinstate a changed minister, so there may be other factors involved.

You seem to have picked one of the more involved Paradox games as your introductory experience (Victoria 2 is probably the only one significantly more complex), but there's a lot of flexibility and freedom to keep the game interesting even after several years and dozens of campaigns with different countries. This is definitely one of my 3 most-played games, and I'm still at it.

 

[Mebsuta]

Probably due to being a democracy with elections. A country with a Fascist party can generally freely choose candidates (although there may not be any alternatives in some cases), but countries with elected officials seem to have limits on who can be replaced, and by whom. It seems to vary by country to some extent, since I do recall at least one other country where I couldn't reinstate a changed minister, so there may be other factors involved.

You seem to have picked one of the more involved Paradox games as your introductory experience (Victoria 2 is probably the only one significantly more complex), but there's a lot of flexibility and freedom to keep the game interesting even after several years and dozens of campaigns with different countries. This is definitely one of my 3 most-played games, and I'm still at it.

I'm certainly liking it so far. Playing only on Very Easy. No shame on that, I have to start learning from somewhere. Always start custom games to lower my neutrality, customize my research and deploy more suitable units. As of now I'm limiting myself to just four countries (Japan, France, Netherlands and Finland). Reason is that I strongly believe different countries are a huge replayability boost, so not burning every country out seems super important for my long term enjoyment of the game.

Back to the topic of Finland I find it simple enough to conquer Norway, Sweden and Denmark before 1939. From there either UK or Soviet Union give me trouble. I'm using mostly two types of brigades (mountain x2, anti-tank, armored car. And then infantry x2, artillery, anti-aircraft). And no aircraft or navy. Any advice on that aspect?

And finally back to the topic of ministers, I assume I can only get rid of elections trough a coup which means increasing dissent, right? Not going to do that. I guess I will stick with Kok (4/10: Social Conservative) as ruling party on future playtroughs, for that is the furthest right-wing democratic party available. That may give me more flexbility without preventing me from joining tje Axis with Finland. Thank you for your response.

 

[Kovax]

Mountain troops are hard to dislodge in their preferred terrain, and have slightly higher ORG than regular INF so Finland can certainly use them in places, but they're expensive to build and maintain. INF have better built-in AT capability. AT brigades are ideal for facing enemy armor, but are one of the weakest things you can possibly put in a division against other Infantry. Armored Cars give the division a little extra hardness, meaning that an attacker is often forced to attack with its weak HA value instead of its primary higher SA value, but the speed is wasted in a slow foot unit and it costs way too much if you're not using its primary advantage: mobility.

The usual infantry division makeup seems to be 2xINF+ART+AT, 3xINF+ART, or 2xINF+2xART, although other combinations can work. You could substitute one MTN brigade for an INF brigade to get some of the advantages without paying for all of the costs.

Note that early conquests have repercussions: your increased Threat will allow any countries with different ideologies to pass more aggressive production laws and spend less on consumer goods, meaning that they get a lot stronger over time. As a democracy, you're boosting both GER and the SU, at the expense of France and the UK. Bear in mind that your actions DO affect other countries.

Sadly, you can't coup your own country, only others, and can't support parties besides your own. Dissent, oddly enough, won't cause rebellions in core territory in this game. You can't change your government without some other country using spies against you and triggering it, which doesn't normally happen. The political end of this game was weak to begin with, and was further watered down in the expansions (apparently to avoid abuse in multiplayer). If you align to a faction, and have low enough Neutrality, you MAY be able to join regardless of your own country's ideology.

 

[Mebsuta]

Mountain troops are hard to dislodge in their preferred terrain, and have slightly higher ORG than regular INF so Finland can certainly use them in places, but they're expensive to build and maintain. INF have better built-in AT capability. AT brigades are ideal for facing enemy armor, but are one of the weakest things you can possibly put in a division against other Infantry. Armored Cars give the division a little extra hardness, meaning that an attacker is often forced to attack with its weak HA value instead of its primary higher SA value, but the speed is wasted in a slow foot unit and it costs way too much if you're not using its primary advantage: mobility.

The usual infantry division makeup seems to be 2xINF+ART+AT, 3xINF+ART, or 2xINF+2xART, although other combinations can work. You could substitute one MTN brigade for an INF brigade to get some of the advantages without paying for all of the costs.

Note that early conquests have repercussions: your increased Threat will allow any countries with different ideologies to pass more aggressive production laws and spend less on consumer goods, meaning that they get a lot stronger over time. As a democracy, you're boosting both GER and the SU, at the expense of France and the UK. Bear in mind that your actions DO affect other countries.

Sadly, you can't coup your own country, only others, and can't support parties besides your own. Dissent, oddly enough, won't cause rebellions in core territory in this game. You can't change your government without some other country using spies against you and triggering it, which doesn't normally happen. The political end of this game was weak to begin with, and was further watered down in the expansions (apparently to avoid abuse in multiplayer). If you align to a faction, and have low enough Neutrality, you MAY be able to join regardless of your own country's ideology.

Thabk you for your advice on land units.

Regarding politics... Yes, I know I can (with alligning to a faction since 1936 and low neutrality) join any faction regardless of ideological similarity. I always go Comintern with Netherlands. Go figure how hard it is, but I always get it done even with democratic leaders.

 

[Strategy-Fan]

Hello community! First post here! Just got HOI3 recently under a reccomendation from a friend. Couldn't get HOI4 because my video ram doesn't fit the bill.

To the matter at hand. I've learned quite a bit of the game in a short time (first paradox interactive game I play, too) however there is one mechanic I still can not comprehend and need detailed explaination (please be aware that I am usually a console player, not often do I play on PC. Which means any explaination in the range of "just look at the code" or "enter this folder and change this setting" will not fit the bill as I am a novice on those things).

Ministers. I am playing as Finland. Trough savescum I have achieved to elect Lapuan Liike (2/10: Fascist) as ruling party. My new ministers all belong to that party. However... when clicking on the "statistics - misc. - politicians" page I can clearly see more ministers of fascist tendencies that are "Possible: no" despite a fascist party being elected and (over the period of 7 in-game years) having over 50 organization. In fact, should I want to replace ANY Lapuan Liike minister of my cabinet, there is no way to bring him/her back. Basically, I can NOT freely pick the ministers of my country's governing organized ideology. Why does this happen? What is the mechanic that determines minister availability if not ruling party? How comes I can not freely choose between Lapuan Liike ministers and instead have to stick with whatever Lapuan Liike minister the elections throw at me, and without even being able to reaquire ministers should I replace them?

Thank you for your time.

Get hoi because reccomendation,me too.
Could not get hoi4 because of high graphis,me too! But now om glad to have hoi3 rather than 4
New you are here ,me too.
So,wlecome to forum.

 

[Mebsuta]

Sorry that I have to necrobump but this is frustrating the living hell out of me. If anyone has the patience and willingness to help me solve or get around this issue PLEASE help me.

I can not yet comprehend how the game will not let me choose ministers of ideological similarity to the ruling party.

As it is, currently the game operates as follows: there is country X. Country X starts the game with party ideology 4/10 as well as ruling party 4/10 obviously. Ruling party 4/10 can only choose ministers of ideologies 3/10, 4/10 or 5/10 despite what the public may desire, because it is extremelly unrealistic to choose a minister of a vastly different ideology than the one of the ruling party. SO FAR THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

Now the problem. Say that country X HAS ELECTIONS because party 4/10 is in fact democratic. Say now that party 7/10 is elected and is now ruling party, with a new head of state, new head of government and appropiate ministers. THE PROBLEM. Say you do not like your ministers. Say that the " statistics - misc. - Politicians" section of the game CLEARLY STATES that there are ministers of ideologies 6/10, 7/10 and 8/10 WHO EXIST but are NOT ELEGIBLE. And then when you go to politics and open the menu to change a minister; 1- the minister currently in charge CAN NOT BE CHOSEN OR RE-AQUIRED ONCE REPLACED. 2- the available pool of ministers is STILL only considering candidates of ideologies 3/10, 4/10 and 5/10 as available choices. Why? Because your form of government in the Politics screen is STILL that of 4/10 regardless of your ruling party being 7/10. Effectivelly, this means that THE ONLY WAY I can have a pool of available candidates of ideologies 6/10, 7/10 and 8/10 which are those that SHOULD be elegible given my current head of state and ruling party, are trough party 7/10 COUPING. This effectivelly means that if the election in a democtratic country is won by ANY party that is not the starting one, you can not freely choose a matching cabinet because the game will still consider the former party's form of government as the de-facto unless a coup is enacted. As such, imagine playing as Netherlands (4/10) and having National Socialism (1/10) win the 1937 elections. It is effectively impossible to choose according ministers even tho they exist, because they aren't available due to your country's form of government being static unless couped. This makes no sense. How was this intended? How can a head of state not designate ministers of ideological similarity because the game neglects to change the form of government to that ofof the newly elected party? Did the devs not realize this could potentially lead to a permanent fractured government National Unity debuff by only being able to appoint ministers of now impopular parties? Why are you forced to stick to your starting form of government to determine your poll of available ministers when your ruling ideology can clearly change so dramatically? What if the ministers of thenow former ideology are simply inefficient in traits? What if I do not want a permanent fractured government? How do I fix or get around this?

/rant.

Sorry.

 

[marxianTJ]

I'll tell you how it happened.

Step 1. They ported *most* of the ministers from Hoi2 (they cut quite a few due to the different end timer - Hoi2 ended in the 1960s - but they didn't cut all of them, hence why some ministers don't have start dates until well past the end of the game) - their pictures, names, and misspellings included - even the ones that never existed IRL.

Step 2. They took all of the available minister types, and converted them onto their new bonus/malus system for hoi3 (as ministers did different things in hoi2). This is also why some nations get 3-4 ministers in the same slot who all do the same thing, as the hoi2 ministers were more varied but their archetypes changed.

Step 3. Weird things and bugs occur because the political system works differently than it did in hoi2. This is why, say, if you coup a nation, 1 of 2 things will happen. A.) All ministers are changed to the available nearest match for party affiliation - however if you change them, they disappear from the game forever. OR the normal minister is left in place, but the only available choice to change is one of the proper party affiliation (which behavior you get differs by nation).


It probably shouldn't be *too* hard to edit their files to make them available in other scenarios, but I wouldn't know how to do that.

Furthermore, don't worry about the "fractured" penalty - if you're trying to boost your national unity with spies, just assign 10 spies to 3 ticks of "increase national unity" (and nothing else) and then also give your people a free press! Yes, your people enjoy government unity propaganda *more* when it comes within the confines of a free press - this was either included in the game unintentionally or as political commentary, not really sure which! Joking aside, the reason this works is that with a free press *all* unity changes are exacerbated. So if you have a free press and get strat bombed or lose convoys your people are more upset, but if you have spies increasing NU they are more united too. Propaganda press just decreases *all* changes in national unity (both good and bad). Also, if you have a compassionate gentleman for a minister (+10% national unity changes - this is marked in red) he will make people even more united so long as you're not losing convoys or getting strat bombed and are having your spies make people united.

 

[Mebsuta]

It probably shouldn't be *too* hard to edit their files to make them available in other scenarios, but I wouldn't know how to do that.

Thanks for letting me know what caused it, but what I am looking for is what you can't provide.

I'm actually not only frustrated at that, but also at the fact that I THINK I could remedy that without the text files if I manage to open the console, but my laptop recognizes none of the commands I've read about. Weird all around. I'll have to wait for someone who may know how and where to alter the text files to make all ministers available at any point.

 

[incognitus]

Note that early conquests have repercussions: your increased Threat will allow any countries with different ideologies to pass more aggressive production laws and spend less on consumer goods, meaning that they get a lot stronger over time. As a democracy, you're boosting both GER and the SU, at the expense of France and the UK. Bear in mind that your actions DO affect other countries.

Say... what determines your "ideology" and therefore which countries feel threatened by you? Your position in the faction triangle or your ruling party or what?

 

[Count Blue]

Thanks for letting me know what caused it, but what I am looking for is what you can't provide.

I'm actually not only frustrated at that, but also at the fact that I THINK I could remedy that without the text files if I manage to open the console, but my laptop recognizes none of the commands I've read about. Weird all around. I'll have to wait for someone who may know how and where to alter the text files to make all ministers available at any point.

You use notepad++ and globally change all start_date entrys for politicians to 1.1.1936
Its pretty easy, but make a backup of the original file first.

The politicians are in the respective country files.
For example germany would be \Hearts of Iron 3\tfh\common\countries\Germany.txt
Their entries are somewhere from line 360 on and below.

 

[marxianTJ]

Incognitus - it's determined by the ruling party's ideology - you can see which yours is just around the upper right of the politics screen. For diplomacy, this will mean that your nation will drift to whichever side of the triangle it is closest to ideologically - you can modify this drift by good relations/trade or by raising threat, and/or influencing said nations or drifting towards desired nations.

 

[Mebsuta]

You use notepad++ and globally change all start_date entrys for politicians to 1.1.1936
Its pretty easy, but make a backup of the original file first.

The politicians are in the respective country files.
For example germany would be \Hearts of Iron 3\tfh\common\countries\Germany.txt
Their entries are somewhere from line 360 on and below.

Thanks a lot for telling me where to do this, and I'm sorry to question your assistance without even testing it first, but I do not think you understood the problem I am facing or in the case you did you were not as clear when providing a solution.

Ministers EXIST in the game, the miscelaneous subsection for politicians on the statistics menu shows me that they are. They appearing when they win an election shows me that they are... the problem is that they are not available. They are not an elegible replacement even tho they exist in the current game date. You see? The problem is not "oh, too bad that this minister won't show up until 1944". The problem is "this minister has been available since 1936 but is never elegible, ever, no matter what party wins the election because the form of government of the nation prevents me from choosing him; because the elected party can not change the form of government".

 

[incognitus]

Incognitus - it's determined by the ruling party's ideology - you can see which yours is just around the upper right of the politics screen. For diplomacy, this will mean that your nation will drift to whichever side of the triangle it is closest to ideologically - you can modify this drift by good relations/trade or by raising threat, and/or influencing said nations or drifting towards desired nations.

So this means if I want to attack mostly democratic nations in my campaign, it'd make sense to play a democratic nation? ^^

 

[Count Blue]

but I do not think you understood the problem I am facing.

Oh I did halfway.
However what you are asking, I think that is not something that is rectifiable by text edit AFAIK.
I might be wrong. Possible people in the mod forum would know more.

 

[marxianTJ]

I don't understand your statement Incognitus :/

You would have a harder time generating sufficient threat on other democracies than you would on fascist/communist nations.

 

[Mebsuta]

I don't understand your statement Incognitus :/

You would have a harder time generating sufficient threat on other democracies than you would on fascist/communist nations.

I think he thinks "oh, if I attack other democracies as a democracy, my threat to them will not raise so they will not enact stronger production laws and will be worst defended against me". But he forgets that raising no threat at all also means that unless your neutrality is 0 you won't be allowed to DoW outright.

 

[incognitus]

I don't understand your statement Incognitus :/

You would have a harder time generating sufficient threat on other democracies than you would on fascist/communist nations.

Sorry mate, I made too many assumptions when making my statement. Here's my predicament:
When I play, I usually go for world conquest. My MO is to bounce on every neutral country, usually the strongest I can easily handle and then I move on to the next. My biggest "worry" in this style of gameplay is for countries to join one of the factions before I can conquer them, because then I won't own them, they will only be occupied.
So I figured, since the Allies have by far the most candidates for joining their faction, it'd be my best bet to use a democratic country to go on my rampage, because that way I won't alert the democratic nations by attacking democratic nations ^^

 

[incognitus]

I think he thinks "oh, if I attack other democracies as a democracy, my threat to them will not raise so they will not enact stronger production laws and will be worst defended against me". But he forgets that raising no threat at all also means that unless your neutrality is 0 you won't be allowed to DoW outright.

No, I don't forget that. But you get your neutrality down to nothing in no time anyways. Just "Prepare for War" and create threat on your scariest neighbour. Finland reaches zero in mid-1937, less ridiculously neutral countries can go to war by mid to late 1936. With anyone, that is.

 

[marxianTJ]

That's correct - you'll generate less threat on the Allies that way.

For example it's *entirely* possible to go conquest bananas as Communist China and end up with the Allies declaring war on you simply because you will generate a TON of threat on the UK being as they have India and thus are considered "near" to you.