Heir to the Throne - Dev Diary 5

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Doomdark

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When you think of a merchant, what image immediately springs to mind? A fat man in a fur-lined coat and a funny hat, holding a bag of coins? I bet it does, or at least something similar. The fat man is of course none other than Jürgen Wullenwever, mayor of Lübeck and instigator of the Danish Civil War known as the Count's Feud, whose epic failures led to his torture and death in 1537, signalling the beginning of the end for the Hanseatic League. (Such is the power of archetypes that they can survive for centuries almost unchanged.)

The Hanseatic League as a political entity has always been problematic to define - especially in game terms - but as Wullenwever's example proves, its senior representatives did not hesitate to use military force when it suited them. The League may have played a minor role in EU3 but will enter the limelight in Heir to the Throne, with Lübeck and Hamburg merged and forming the core of the Hanseatic League. Now, there are some who will object to this, but do read on before you start convulsing and frothing at the mouth.

The Hanseatic League is of course a Merchant Republic, and this form of government has received a serious overhaul. Merchant Republics do not use regular Trade Agreements; instead, they form Trade Leagues, the members of which avoid internal competition. The Merchant Republic gains by this, because league provinces tend to trade through league centers of trade. The members also stand to gain, since they use the Republic's compete modifiers (if better than their own.) Additionally, the league might open Trade Stations (think Hanseatic Kontors) in member provinces, giving various bonuses. Merchant Republics can also Propose Trade Rights, which means all goods of a certain type will trade through its own centers of trade, with a set compensation to the giver and some other effects. Lastly, there will be more events and decisions dealing with Merchant Republics, like the Hanseatic League trying to avoid paying the Sound toll.

Merchant Republics can not include each other in their leagues, being bitter rivals, and it is of course no longer possible to simply change your form of government to Merchant Republic: Venice, Genoa, the Hanseatic League and Novgorod are it at the start of the game, each having their own Trade League. However, if you too want the respect that comes with obesity, garish clothes and oversized jewelry, you might be able to convert through a special decision (or a career in gangsta rap; your call.)

What else have I got for you today? Oh yes, all forms of republic barring tribes now get reduced penalties from provinces not of their own culture and religion. (In general, government bonuses are being redesigned to make them more interesting.) So, there you have it, there is room for humanists and democrats in our Paradoxian hearts too (but not enough that I will tell you what Magistrates do)!
 

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Jon F. Zeigler

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Oh, now this looks very interesting.
 

Will Lucky

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However, if you too want the respect that comes with obesity, garish clothes and oversized jewelry, you might be able to convert through a special decision (or a career in gangsta rap; your call.)

Why....just why:rofl:.

Overall loving the change, might convince me to play Merchant Republic more often.
 

Grosshaus

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I haven't really liked trading nations in EU games. Too common I make no money at all, until at the rather late-game when there is too much money around spend some on trading and surprisingly start making tons of money.

With these new features playing a trading nation leading an own league seems like a rather distinct experience.
 

unity100

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1537, signalling the beginning of the end for the Hanseatic League.

hanseatic league's beginning of the end already begun in early 1400s, when flemish countries took over the majority of the trade. by around 1450s, they were minor presence. after that, they were just a small factor in baltic.
 

unity100

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you need to incorporate the 'free cities' concept to the game. most of the league cities were free cities, which had little territory but somewhat free of the local sovereign's rule. even in big foreign cities they maintained free districts for themselves, ruled with their laws.

it might be hard to portray this in the game tho. maybe you can create very tiny provinces where the cities are, and put the cities in there.
 

L Lawliet

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Mmmm... JUICY! I can already see all the applications of this splendid system! But still no idea what magistrates do.
 

safferli

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Love your humour, doomdark... these Dev Dairies always make my day! :)
 

delra

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So as a big conqueror country I just join the Hansa and get all the Lubeck's modifiers to trade without having to ever research Trade tech, getting NIs and so on? For example as France with BB around 30 I still can be a major trader? :)
 

Thorin Oakshiel

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Sounds great, except for 2 things:

1) Novgorod was part of the Hanseatic League, but covered most of (Modern) Russia as trading station.

2) It were the Dutch who'd eventually broke the Hanseatic League as they were tired of paying both the toll to the Danes as the provission the League demanded from its traders.
Because of that the Dutch traders send ships out without permission of the League to trade for furs, iron, wood and grain in the Baltic Area.



Thorin :)
 

Lazuline

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Interesting. :) Albeit, I've some concerns that I'd like to raise.

It seems that member countries/provinces that are part of a trade league only have a "tendency" to trade into the League's CoT. Is there a way to require member nations/provinces to exclusively trade in the League's CoT?

How about non-Merchant Republic Nations like England and France? How will it affect their CoTs? In the SS, it seems parts of England trades through Lubeck. Does it mean that London can not possibly compete since England does not have "Trade Leagues" or "Trade Rights"? It seems problematic to me.

And lastly, what of military matters? Do members of Trade Leagues protect each other as Guild Merchants do? Will the Hanseatic League, and all her members, rise up to defend the League if say Denmark or France threatens the League? Or is the Trade League a purely-merchant only thing and has no impact on diplomatic alliances and what not? If so, would that not present a problem? Finally, in wars, is it possible to "Demand to Dismantle a League" or to "Demand Trade Rights"? :D
 

martin23230

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:eek:I spy a new tab in the first picture. Screenshots? Photos? Maps? Discuss.

Plus, wasn't Bremen part of the Hansa state in the 1st Dev Diary? Was there a reason for changing this, I don't know much about the history.
 

sprites

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hmm ...
maybe denmark didn't need one less province at the start :D
we'll see the imfluences of such leagues

what is that crown with 100 ?

you can't form it , so no merchant republics outside of europe?
 

LeeDub

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What is that crown to the right of Infamy indicator? Imperial Authority? If so, will it display for all countires in the world, since it's a HUD element? This wouldn't make sense. Why would Ming know about the Imperial Authority?

Maybe it's an entirely different concept.
 

Doomdark

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Interesting. :) Albeit, I've some concerns that I'd like to raise.

It seems that member countries/provinces that are part of a trade league only have a "tendency" to trade into the League's CoT. Is there a way to require member nations/provinces to exclusively trade in the League's CoT?

CoTs exert a type of "attraction" or gravity that determines which provinces trade through which CoT. The exact added "pull" for League members needs to be balanced, but I am not sure if it is a good idea to make it infinitely strong.

How about non-Merchant Republic Nations like England and France? How will it affect their CoTs? In the SS, it seems parts of England trades through Lubeck. Does it mean that London can not possibly compete since England does not have "Trade Leagues" or "Trade Rights"? It seems problematic to me.

London does not have a CoT yet in 1399, and England is considered to be within the Hanseatic League. While it remains so, it cannot form a CoT in London, and even if it had one, it would suffer an attraction penalty corresponding to the attraction bonus of the Lübeck CoT.

The idea is that it should not be advantageous to be a member of a trade league if you control or wish to control CoTs of your own. Small countries without a CoT or the ability to form one, however, will benefit from being a member of a trade league.

And lastly, what of military matters? Do members of Trade Leagues protect each other as Guild Merchants do? Will the Hanseatic League, and all her members, rise up to defend the League if say Denmark or France threatens the League? Or is the Trade League a purely-merchant only thing and has no impact on diplomatic alliances and what not? If so, would that not present a problem? Finally, in wars, is it possible to "Demand to Dismantle a League" or to "Demand Trade Rights"? :D

Trade leagues are not military alliances. Members are not called to war when attacked. However, there are "trade war" type casus bellis for when countries get embargoed or leave a trade league. There will also be events and decisions in a similar vein.
 

Checco

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Happy to see that less important forms of governments like Merchant Republics got more mojo to develop, so that trade gets more important (not as much as stacks of thousands of cav marching, but this is how the world was built).

I also like the idea that becoming a Merc Republic isn't easy as losing 4 stab and clicking a button (that would also mean that the first time you collapse to pretenders, you become either a Feudal Mon or a Despotic Mon, so watching out for too many rebels might become a big priority, if you want to remain a trader).

So, there you have it, there is room for humanists and democrats in our Paradoxian hearts too (but not enough that I will tell you what Magistrates do)!

Well, I organized to be sure that either magistrates will be in the next dev's diary or my spies will reach Paradox and start using Support Revolt (and Bribe Defenders...) :D

(don't blame me, it's for democracy(TM)'s sake...)