Heavy fighters are dead and buried.

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Secret Master

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I was under the impression that mission efficiency controlled the effectiveness of the assigned plane's stats. Those stats are an average of the fighter types assigned's stats, dragged down if below 100% efficiency. How does that influence the number of planes in combat?

No. Mission efficiency reduces the effective number of planes in combat. See here: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Air_warfare#Air_superiority

At 50% mission efficiency, if you put 1000 planes in an air region, you basically only have 500 performing the mission.

Does air superiority effect sortie efficiency, which implies that interception missions on land based fighters is ineffective for controlling hostile carrier planes.

Yep. Enemy air superiority acts as a heavy nerf on carrier sortie efficiency. With enough air superiority in an air region, carriers won't launch any planes (fighters or bombers). If you intend to use land based fighters to counter carriers, don't waste time with interception. Use air superiority.
 
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On this note specifically, since the game is relatively limited in choice, I wish we could hard lock airwings into certain designs. If I made a range variant, I don't want that variant going to 'general coverage' airwings. I would want that variant going only to my escort wings or the airwings I have in 'insert theater with terrible infrastructure here' airwings.

there is historical precedent here. Some aircraft did well for the UK in say the Indochina areas that got massacred in Europe. The Beufighter and Hurricane in 1942/43 as an example. The P40 did 'ok' for the UK and the USA in Africa as it had more range. There are other examples but it just sucks that the moment you create a new variant the game considers it the bee's knees and sends it everywhere without the option of considering a variant as a specialty ... unless I'm missing something.
Regarding variants this should be able to be done. Iirc when you reorganize or form an airwing you can choose settings found next to the strength like always use newest, or only use whats present in wing already. By fiddling with these and making designs obsolete or not you can keep total control although it requires a bit of detail work.
 
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HugsAndSnuggles

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I was under the impression that mission efficiency controlled the effectiveness of the assigned plane's stats.
As I understnd it, that's "[Insert mission type name] Mission Efficiency" - a completely different thing, despite the name.
 

sekelsenmat

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Well, IRL heavy fighters were a dead concept apart from the night role. The adoption of drop tanks along with more internal fuel combined with the logistical simplicity of 1 engine, 1 crew member, SE fighters gaining significant horsepower, and sufficient firepower ended the romance some nation's had with heavy fighters.

A heavy fighter shouldn't be equated with a 2-engine fighter. Two engines were used because powerful enough engines weren't yet available, just like in the past passenger jets needed 3 or 4 engines, but nowadays the B777 is huge and requires only two engines because they are much more powerful than previously available ones. The 1936 models, sure should be 2-engine fighters and quite bad, but IMHO the P-47 should be the 1944 tech Heavy Fighter for the USA. It was significantly heavier than other fighters of the same time.

Empty Weight: 4.5 tons
Range: 1,030 mi (1,660 km, 900 nmi)
Role Fighter-bomber

Empty Weight: 3.2 tons
Range: 900–1,000 km (560–620 mi, 490–540 nmi)
Role: Fighter

Empty weight: 2.2 tons

The heavy fighter 1944 should be this: Similar to a fighter in performance, but costing more and with a greater range and with a small hability to bomb logistics and ground troops. Heavy fighters should be fighter-bombers.


The P-47 was twice as heavy and had four times the fuselage size of a Spitfire. Armed with eight .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns it could outshoot any enemy fighter,[32] and as a fighter-bomber, it could carry half the bomb load of a Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress or 10 five-inch (127 mm) High-Velocity Aircraft Rockets.

Seriously, half the load of a B-17 is a lot and therefore it another proof it should be classified as a Heavy Fighter, not a light one.
 
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sekelsenmat

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and with that maximum payload, it had TERRIBLE range. if you design around the late war P47, and give it the stats for max payload without offsetting range, you're going to introduce weirder problems than heavy fighters being relatively irrelevant.

I'm just saying Heavy Fighter 44 should have a better agility and speed and maybe a ground attack of 1/2/3 (for the 36/40/44 models). This should make them more realistic.
 
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Stupid question probably, but if youre upgrading regular fighter attack, are you also upgrading heavy fighter agility/speed in equal amounts for your tests/comparisons?

I was under impression that there were 3 main uses of HFs…
1. Way better range
2. Base damage allowed them to punch through bomber defence
3. Using the 20% manufacturer bonus to reliability you can somehow get a good portion of them back after kamikaze runs if you went over 100% reliability

Are all these uses defunct now?
 
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On this note specifically, since the game is relatively limited in choice, I wish we could hard lock airwings into certain designs. If I made a range variant, I don't want that variant going to 'general coverage' airwings. I would want that variant going only to my escort wings or the airwings I have in 'insert theater with terrible infrastructure here' airwings.

there is historical precedent here. Some aircraft did well for the UK in say the Indochina areas that got massacred in Europe. The Beufighter and Hurricane in 1942/43 as an example. The P40 did 'ok' for the UK and the USA in Africa as it had more range. There are other examples but it just sucks that the moment you create a new variant the game considers it the bee's knees and sends it everywhere without the option of considering a variant as a specialty ... unless I'm missing something.
You can! It's one of the best changes we've had in a free patch. I mostly play the UK and not having this ability was infuriating for all the reasons you mention.

Here are the relevant parts of the Airbase Dialog:

2021-12-13_20-11.png


Select one air wing only and you can then adjust its composition:

2021-12-13_20-12.png



A heavy fighter shouldn't be equated with a 2-engine fighter.
At launch, podcat was explicit that 'light Fighter' and 'Heavy Fighter' were shorthands for single-engine and twin-engine fighters and all the national labels were assigned on that basis. Fork/MTG renamed the US types to break this pattern, but it still applies everywhere else.
 
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Thanks for this I'll have to play around with it. Still though any new variant makes older variants obsolete where as I'd like more, idk, 'side' variants.

Example, lets say 40 fighter, I then make variant 1 with 5/5 in the engine. I then want 2 more variants, one to add range only and another weapons only. from there i want to route the range or weapon variants to specific wings.
 
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Thanks for this I'll have to play around with it. Still though any new variant makes older variants obsolete where as I'd like more, idk, 'side' variants.

Example, lets say 40 fighter, I then make variant 1 with 5/5 in the engine. I then want 2 more variants, one to add range only and another weapons only. from there i want to route the range or weapon variants to specific wings.
I believe the star button is a version for using specific equipment types, though I'm not sure it keeps to variant rules. Managing those airwings would be painful even if the star designation worked, as there is no good way to tell your range fighters from your gun fighters at a glance.
 
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I believe the star button is a version for using specific equipment types, though I'm not sure it keeps to variant rules. Managing those airwings would be painful even if the star designation worked, as there is no good way to tell your range fighters from your gun fighters at a glance.

I use the star regularly, and it works 98% of the time (every now and then I had weird glitches when setting it in the reorganize view after removing a plane type, but not if the airwing already only had certain aircraft). Reserve is the one that is somewhat poor at telling apart different aircraft of the same tier.

The best part about this is getting to train airwings to full XP with your obsolete biplanes before letting them restock with modern fighters, and you have 0 worries about air attrition or wasting aircraft on training duty while at war (although it takes a bit of micro to keep track of, and sometimes runs into problems when you either run short of old aircraft or your front line fighters are getting shredded).
 
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If you have enough IC to build both fighters and heavies, you can fill up the airbases close to the front line with fighter wings, and put the heavies in farther back airfields. That way you can theoretically have double the number of fighters within range of the front line provinces. I will typically assign the heavies to Interception over my frontline or industrial areas, and assign fighters to Air Superiority. Of course if I don't have the luxury of extra IC I would focus on fighters and create variants with more range, agility, and firepower.

Or just use the IC to upgrade the airfields or build new ones, better.
 
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I still think heavy fighters should have some ground attack/fighter-bomber abilities.

Maybe for the Brits, give the Beaufighter its torpedo loadout/naval attack as well.

Also, some older varieties of fighter types can be 'put out to pasture' with some ground attack ability. Lots of P-40s did a lot of ground attack after they were replaced in the air superiority role. How many Spitfire Vs carried some bombs after the Griffon-engined spits came along?

And, yes, the P-38, for example, did a LOT of work in the Pacific, but in Europe, it just wasn't able to hang very well vs the 109s and the 190s, etc.

Hurricanes did a lot of fighter-on-fighter for the Battle of Britain, and not that much after, but were used a lot for ground attack/fighter-bomber work.
 
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The became so pointless. In theory bomber killers but why bother if you can upgrade weapons of fighters to ludicrous levels?
Range and Airfields.
On paper that is true, but if you can't cover more than 50% of an area, a Heavy Fighter becomes equal in terms of production value, and the only option for further range.
In addition to that, for coverage you'd need airfields close enough for coverage. And then you often run out of space and max out the max number of airplanes you can send. With Heavies you can stage from more airports, so you can get better range and more aircraft into a zone.

It's not obvious by the math in theory. But note the amount of airplanes you can field when you play. It's more useful than it seems.
 
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Or just use the IC to upgrade the airfields or build new ones, better.

You're not exactly building heavy fighters with civilian factories, so unless you're suggesting preemptively building up airfields instead of more military factories (which is good in some theatres, but not anywhere with neutral or hostile territory you need them at later), this doesn't really work.
 
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