Heathen Christmas (sic)

[Duque de Bragança]

Just before X-mas, i have a question for you all. I'm sure you are aware that Christmas is just a pagan celebration "recycled" by christianity.
Problem is what were its precise roots ?
I tend to think about the Sol Invictus in Rome (festival to celebrate the winter solstice), Jul in Scandinavia (Odin giving presents on his sleigh ?) plus the Mithra mystery cult which i lack information about.
Contributions are welcome if needed...

 

[driftwood]

The cult of Sol Invictus was not very old at the time of its popularity. Certainly it doesn't predate Christianity enough to have provided a precursor-Xmas. In any event, it was only really popular in the army.

As far as I know, just about every culture has a winter solstice holiday. Christmas, which did exist from very early on in Christianity, albeit in a much less important role, must simply have amalgamated whatever it found in each country to which it spread.

driftwood

 

[Duque de Bragança]

Originally posted by driftwood
The cult of Sol Invictus was not very old at the time of its popularity. Certainly it doesn't predate Christianity enough to have provided a precursor-Xmas. In any event, it was only really popular in the army.

As far as I know, just about every culture has a winter solstice holiday. Christmas, which did exist from very early on in Christianity, albeit in a much less important role, must simply have amalgamated whatever it found in each country to which it spread.

driftwood

I would second what you said about Christianity amalgamating or recycling, yet there's more than that
have a look at this interesting link. It's a bit oriented (Heathen Society of Norway) but still very informative & fun : it's a quizz actually be sure to have the flash plug-in installed
play online at http://www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/flash/xmas.html
or download http://www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/flash/xmasquiz.exe

The Saturnalia existed for sure BEFORE christianty.
http://italian.about.com/library/weekly/aa120600a.htm?terms=saturnalia (Sol invictus feast created by Aurelianus)
or just type "saturnalia" at about.com
http://home.about.com/homework/hubsearch.htm?terms=saturnalia&SUName=homework&TopNode=15756&x=5&y=12
5 or 6 most interesting links plus some related links on the bottom of the page to consider as well.

Be it pagan or heathen, Merry Christmas anyways !

 

[Endre Fodstad]

It's a bit oriented (Heathen Society of Norway)

They're not only a _bit_ oriented. Some of these guys are stiff competition for the most zealous religious wackos...only in reverse...

Saddest thing is, the main object of their hatred, the State Church, has been declining for many years without their help, while memberships in the cults they mostly ignore soar...

Merry Christmas, everyone!

EF

 

[Duque de Bragança]

Originally posted by Endre Fodstad
It's a bit oriented (Heathen Society of Norway)

They're not only a _bit_ oriented. Some of these guys are stiff competition for the most zealous religious wackos...only in reverse...

Saddest thing is, the main object of their hatred, the State Church, has been declining for many years without their help, while memberships in the cults they mostly ignore soar...

Merry Christmas, everyone!

EF

Wackos ? Very zealous ? I found that that they had a way with humour unlike the Church. If you really want very oriented stuff (not only religion) try "Kri-Kri" Varg Vikernes' Heathen front

 

[driftwood]

The Saturnalia do indeed predate the cult of Sol Invictus, as well as Christianity, by quite a long time. The cult of Bacchus was probably the longest-running, most successful pagan cult to survive into the Christian era. But I'll leave it up to you to decide what impact the Bacchanalia had on any Christian holidays.

driftwood

 

[Duque de Bragança]

Originally posted by driftwood
The Saturnalia do indeed predate the cult of Sol Invictus, as well as Christianity, by quite a long time. The cult of Bacchus was probably the longest-running, most successful pagan cult to survive into the Christian era. But I'll leave it up to you to decide what impact the Bacchanalia had on any Christian holidays.

driftwood

Certe ! Io, Saturnalia !
Actually, the Saturnalia inspired 2 Christian holidays : Christmas,the exchange gifts part & the Carnival : masters & slaves swapping roles.
As for Bacchus, well yes, still celebrated nowadays

 

[Endre Fodstad]

Originally posted by DuquedeBragance


Wackos ? Very zealous ? I found that that they had a way with humour unlike the Church. If you really want very oriented stuff (not only religion) try "Kri-Kri" Varg Vikernes' Heathen front

Try being ambushed by one of them in the streets of Oslo, especially around a holiday with religious overtones, when they've got the most to (dis)prove . When I lived downtown they'd walk around distributing pamphlets and ringing doorbells...

I sometimes got a sudden urge to shave their heads and give them an orange robe when I got them at my door.

EF

 

[Duque de Bragança]

Originally posted by Endre Fodstad


Try being ambushed by one of them in the streets of Oslo, especially around a holiday with religious overtones, when they've got the most to (dis)prove . When I lived downtown they'd walk around distributing pamphlets and ringing doorbells...

I sometimes got a sudden urge to shave their heads and give them an orange robe when I got them at my door.

EF

All right, all right... I was just referring to their quizz which is AFAIK telling the truth about the so-called Christmas. Yet, compared to the Heathen front (neo-nazi heathenism), as i said before, they seem moderate.

 

[unmerged(4763)]

Originally posted by DuquedeBragance
All right, all right... I was just referring to their quizz which is AFAIK telling the truth about the so-called Christmas. Yet, compared to the Heathen front (neo-nazi heathenism), as i said before, they seem moderate.

Compared to the Heathen front, just about everyone is moderate.

Hmm, maybe not, come to think of it. There are fanatics & fundamentalists everywhere, either religious or political. And they all seem to have the same keyword: Intolerance.

 

[Duque de Bragança]

Originally posted by VingTor

Compared to the Heathen front, just about everyone is moderate.

Hmm, maybe not, come to think of it. There are fanatics & fundamentalists everywhere, either religious or political. And they all seem to have the same keyword: Intolerance.

Intolerable Intolerance !
Flaming in the Church is perfectly legal but not à la Varg Vikernes i mean & yes the Heathen Front is extremist. The heathen "latin" sections have been expelled from the organization ; it's a shame since they were the most moderate or the less extremist as you wish.
Is there a pure atheist (Stalinist would be fun) front/association comparable ? Then we could see who is moderate or not...