Hearts of Iron IV - Development Diary 5 - Production Lines

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podcat

Game Director <unannounced>
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It's time for another Hearts of Iron IV Developer Diary, and this time I'm going to talk a bit more about production; specifically the Production Lines and How Things Get Built. All military equipment is made on Production Lines in HoI IV, so players will need to be familiar with how they work if they want to maximize their war machine.

But before we can talk about the production lines themselves, we should cover how Industry has changed in HoI IV.

First of all, we have separated industry in Hearts of Iron IV into 3 types:

Civilian industry - Used both for "Consumer goods" and building infrastructure and other buildings.
Dockyards – Used for building ships.
Military factories - Used for production of military equipment such as tanks, weapons and airplanes.

This kind of separation allows us to balance different countries' industrial strengths (the capacity to make ships is not the same as the capacity to make luxuries), and gives the player a more interesting selection of targets for strategic bombing.

Moving on to the actual means of Production, Factories no longer need Metal/Energy/Rare Materials to run. Requiring the player to gather several different types of resources in order to manage factories did not necessarily add anything interesting to the mix. Being short on any of them had the same effect no matter what you were lacking (your Industrial Capacity would shrink) and it didn't entirely make sense that you couldn't build things like Militia if you didn't have access to Rare Materials.

We have simplified the inputs to "Raw materials" which factories use to run. Raw materials act as a limit on your total Industrial Capacity. However that is not the whole Production story. Equipment also has a Strategic Resource cost, without which it takes much longer to produce. Strategic Resources are not accumulated in pools. Instead, they represent the potential flow of resources into your factories. For example if you have 10 Iron you can be building stuff that costs up to 10 Iron at any one time.

A Production Line is a standing order for a factory or group of factories to make a certain piece of equipment. Each piece of equipment has an IC (Industrial Capacity) cost and a Resource cost. The IC cost determines how much equipment each factory can produce per week, while the Resource cost determines how many resources are needed for the line to operate at full speed.

prod_line.png


As a totally made up example: An Advanced Medium Tank may cost 2 IC and require 1 Iron and 1 Tungsten. Each Factory produces 10 IC, so if you assigned 1 Factory to this Production Line, you would produce 5 Advanced Medium Tanks per week. If you assign 10 factories you would get 50 tanks/week. At the same time you would need to have 5 Iron and 5 Tungsten in the first case, and 50 Iron and 50 Tungsten in the second. (Again, these numbers are all purely made up, focus on the idea and not the values here.) You can only assign up to 15 Factories to any given Production Line, so you won't be able to build, say, a Battleship in one week by assigning 100 Factories to build it.

Also, do note that simply building Equipment is not the same as training and equipping a unit, but we'll cover that in a future dev diary.

Production Lines also have an Efficiency value which affects how much value you get out of your IC at a factory. Your efficiency starts out fairly low but increases as items are produced - slowly at first to represent the retooling of the factories, then it begins to increase at a linear rate until tapering off after a certain value (an S curve). You can change what a Production line produces, of course, and this normally means all your Efficiency is lost, however there are some exceptions. If you change to a modified version of the same equipment (for example, the same tank but with a larger gun) you keep most of your Efficiency. If you switch to another variant of the same chassis (e.g. you switch from Pz IIIs to StuG IIIs) you keep half your Efficiency. And if you switch within the same family (e.g. Basic Medium Tank to Improved Medium Tank) you keep a small part of your Efficiency.

Efficiency means that you will be able to produce more once your factories are humming along. So long as you can keep your workers on task and supplied with what they need, you will be able to have assembly line production that properly reflects the might of an economy dedicated to the war effort.

Our larger hope is that Production Lines and efficiency will offer players some interesting choices when it comes to deciding what to build. Should you go for a large number of weapons you can already churn out, or take a short term hit on production in favor of making a smaller number of higher quality ones? Sure, your new T-43 tank is better than the T-34, but is it really enough of an improvement to lose much of your Production Line's Efficiency when you switch over? Your PzIII tank may be obsolete, but perhaps instead of canceling their production entirely you could convert the Line to make Tank Destroyers or Self-Propelled Artillery on the PzIII chassis. Preserving efficiency in some of your factories could lead to a more diverse and interesting combination of units, and allow you to discover some parts of the game you might have ignored if you just constantly upgraded.
 
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Can we assign specific factories up to the task or it'll be any factory?

Any factory.

One question, can you add or remove factories from production lines already running, and if so, what would that do to the efficiency?

You can, efficiency is actually stored per factory, so adding more will "dilute" your efficiency a bit, while removing them will increase it somewhat.
 
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View attachment 107383

I take it these resources are;

Oil.......Aluminium........Rubber
?????......Iron..............Tungsten

Oil, Aluminium, Rubber
Tungsten, Iron, Chromium

Will the MODEL pictures be same size as in HOI3?

No, they are different size. you can just measure in the screenshot if you plan a mod, but chances are we change stuff a bit before release
 
Excellent stuff. How many strategic resources are there? Is stockpiling gone entirely?

I guess that when you bomb a certain type of factories, the IC level goes down, but since units are not assigned to specific factories, you cannot "target" specific stuff in the production line and things that are lower in the production line will be affected first, correct?

There's currently 6, not counting Raw materials, but that could change. Stockpiling resources is gone anyway, more than that I cannot say.

And yes, lowest lines suffer from shortages first.

Ah, elegant. Another question, do you build production lines for consumer goods and factories as well? Do you manufacture "tools" and turn them into factories?

No, you don't build either. A certain amount of Civilian IC will be considered reserved for consumer goods, and tools production is assumed to be where most of your IC is going when you start up a new line.

IRL industry was often concentrated. In HOI3 there was no benefit in concentrating IC in one place - in fact, it was better to build IC in many different provinces in order to make it more difficult for STRATs to target them all in a given amount of time. Will there be an incentive to concentrate IC in a given region/province/whatever in HOI4?

Which IC type is used to build more IC? :D Can you convert factories to a different type?

There's no direct advantage to building, say, 10 IC in one state as opposed to 5 in 2, but we have discussed a few ideas about the differences of concentrated vs spread industry.

Civilian IC is used to build IC etc, and yes, you can convert industry to other types.

This sounds good to me, really looking forward to the game.

Can you convert industry from civilian to military?

Can you stockpile strategic resources?

Does each factory in this production folder correspond with a specific factory on the map or is it abstracted across?

1)Yes.
2)No.
3)Abstracted. Although currently factories do "remember" what they were tooled for and the system will use the best picks if you disband some lines and then start up similar ones.

What about supply production? It isn't listed with any of the industry types.

You will need to wait for a future DD for that, I'm afraid.

While I understand that adding new factories will reduce the overall efficiency, how does removing a factory increase the efficiency of the production line?

In game terms? Generally it allows some more rounding up. In realism terms you could say some experienced men transfer to keep working on what they know :)

Are upgrades still available for already built models? How will that work, generic or you would also need to assign factories for it?

How they work depends on how extensive a rework we consider them. Small things just appear for free on existing units, while more extensive "upgrades" actually require you to build new equipment.
 
The interface looks smooth and really nice gj :).

In the picture the 3 units all need Iron. If you had less iron than needed to make the units how will they be affected. Would all of them get an equal production hit or would it start with the arty?

The allocated factories are alittle hard to "read" imho. Maybe its because i think the factory icon looks more like a graph than a factory (the chimneys are high making the building way too small imho). Also the factories themselves are hard to read because you need to count theres no easy to read number which tells you the amount of factories in the production line. The more production lines you get the more important this instant information will become.
I would make a single factory picture then let the number of factories used in the production line be shown in numbers and maybe even let the progression bar run on top. So if theres 7/15 factories in the line let 7/15 of the factory be shown at 100% opacity while the rest is a bit faded. Also that would make it possible to make the interface a bit "prettier" by letting the lines from the headlines (materials, Equipment, Factories) run through in the underlying production lines. Though i dunno if thats even going to make a noticable difference or if im just nitpicking now :D
I have made a rather ugly paint sketch to try and illustrate. (so much for not having proper picture editing tools available at work ^^)

View attachment 107382

EDIT: also does the ressources show the amount you have yet to use or the total amount?, is there going to be an easy way to quickly see how much you have left or how many % of your "supply" you are using.

The arty, being the bottom of the list, should suffer the shortage.

It may be better to show numbers, although one neat feature of the factory rows is you can click to set an exactly number quickly, and you should quickly become used to the 3 rows of 5 format so you can tell how many are assigned at a glance. However, it's not the final UI so we may end up changing things.

The resource numbers show the amount left, IIRC ENG has 150 Iron and 100 of the others in this example.
 
What about captured factories? Will they keep some of their efficiency to emulate the Panzer 38(t) stuff?

Probably not, and there's no guarantee that the Czechs would have useful stuff in production when you annex them.

Is there a difference between 1 line with 15 factories and 15 lines with 1 factory each? (All produce the same equipment)

I don't think so, besides that the 15 lines will clutter your list :)

Edit: Actually, I suppose the larger line will gain more Efficiency as stuff starts being produced and will be a better deal once the first units have rolled out.
 
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Will you need to do trade deals and run convoys to get strategic resources to your homeland like you do with metal, coal and oil in HOI3?

Yup.

How come "Artillery" is one model of equipment? Surely to fit in with the level of detail of Churchill Tank and Hurricane, you would need to have artillery be a little more specific, 6" Howitzer for example.

I just haven't had time to add flavour names to everything yet, although there will likely be less detail on support equipment even once I do so.

So if i use 5 metal/week and gain 6 metal/week, does it mean that all the extra metal will just vaporize into thin air?

It doesn't vaporise so much as miners/smelters w/e scale back their production if there's no market.

So when you say we are producing 17 tanks per week, i suppose this is 17 actual tank that will come reinforce our division, and not 17 divisions of tanks ? :p

Yes, also these are using placeholder costs.
 
Very interesting and looks as much better than HoI1-3 way. One thing I hope for is that while stockpiling is reduced, logistic should affect the strategic materials one gets.

A very minor quibble - I think it would be better to call iron either steel or iron ore, as iron per se wasn't really that much used... If iron ore, then I'd also add coal as resource (representing both the coking coal as well as energy needed to run the factories in the first place... )

Technically it's iron ore, otherwise we'd need to ship steel from Sweden to Germany which would be weird. And yeah, it does need to be turned into steel to be useful, but I considered that to be abstracted into the industrial process and coal to be covered by the raw material need of Industry, otherwise we'd have 2 good that are always used together and would feel redundant.

It's good to see that you don't have to micromanage every single factory in the game, but it could backfire if you don't also give the players the opportunity to manually move the production of key production lines away from the front or possible bombardment. That would also add to the new idea of sacrificing efficiency for undisturbed production and more efficiency in the future.

It should not be a problem since lines aren't tied to onmap factories, damage or loss of factories is deducted from the lowest priority lines. Possibly there should be some efficiency loss to higher priority lines when this happens, but that may get too fiddly.
 
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Looks nice and thank you for this DD

1. Strategic bombing and destroying IC, who will feel the shortage first? Art or the planes?
2. I assume there will be no "Inf" to build, only equipment and Manpower is an Extra pool that not shows up in production?
3. Will the ressources be hardocded or moddable?
4. For ships there will be the text "1 Destroyer each 6 months" ?
5. Off topic(Dev Dia) can spies reveal your production output?

Thanks

1. Arty.
2. Yeah. The mating of equipment and manpower/training will be covered when we talk about Deployment. It's cool though.
3. They should be moddable, although UI space is limited.
4. Well "2/year" is how I think that would show, but yeah.
5. Yes (no followup questions please!)

Oh yeah and the button "storage"... seems like we can "storage" equipment? :)

Well it has to go somewhere untill you use it... :)
 
So you can only allocate whole factories ? No more tinkering with hundredths of IC?

Yeah, no more tweaking sliders every hour of the game
 
2. Offtopic: For higher resolutions, can i scale the UI so that it fits on my monitor and shows more then if playing on low res? :)
Yes, actually it does that right now
 
That's a bit too abstracted. :p

No more so than the other HoIs :p

Dissapointed, you were not building spitfires. Also can we produce only three types of equipment?

You can build as many types as you want/have. Although I guess you have a limit of 1 per factory.

So no heavy water, uranium etc. for nuke production? :p

Oh there might be, but you won't be ordering nukes from the production screen, more likely they will be produced automatically based on your reactor level and tech.

Thank you for your answers. 2 more questions :D:

1. Storage - What is true a/b?: A - We need 500 spare tanks on stock, everything more should go directly to the front B - Reinforce the front when 1000 tanks in storage
2. Offtopic: For higher resolutions, can i scale the UI so that it fits on my monitor and shows more then if playing on low res? :)

Thats it from me today... and no follow up questions anymore :) ty

1. Neither quite cover it, will talk about this when we do Deployment though.
 
That is great!

Really this DD makes me want this game soooo much! It seems like things were implemented in a really cool way. I am a little disappointed that there are only six strategic resources, but I am nit-picking now.
Just to clarify, right now the list with production lines scale with your y-resolution and thus allows you to see more lines without scrolling, the "line items" themselves does not scale their graphic.
 
In some thread I read a dev saying the quality of Panther V steel was poor, by soviet test (Iffy that they have any terms of accuracy), Not saying they steel(tehe) wasn't just the results screw balled in the gloriousness of the soviet union. But the point is if I'm Germany and I'm steel getting high quality steel from Sweden, I'd assume I'm not going to have a penalty for production of tanks if I'm still getting sufficient raw materials to build my tanks. So really will the quality of the materials and amount effect the effectiveness and production of a tank I'm building. I hope to god there is no inherent flaw with the tank because during late years 44-45 Germany didn't have as much access to high quality materials and so now there will be a penalty to the tank because Germany at the time wasn't capable of getting sufficient materials to build the complex tank.

There's no quality level to resources, if you have what you need everything is hunky-dory, if you are short it is assumed the slower production is you scraping up the resources someway-somehow so you still end up with the same final result.

Here's an American report on Panther armour though:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a954952.pdf
And:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a954940.pdf
(but we won't model stuff like this ingame)
 
Devs, do I understand it right that resources will be covered separately in a DD?

yeah probably when we talk trade. We just wanted to touch on it enough to explain how production lines work

Podcat, you say that the effects of the metallurgical reports you posted (which were fascinating BTW) won’t be modelled. But… Molybdenum was (is) a critical element in the manufacture heat-treatable steels. I know almost all of the world’s Mo was mined in the USA (and that the market was artificially created) but, once it was realised how useful Moly’ was, everyone who could get it used it. Would making Mo a strategic resource make the USA too powerful and/or nerf Germany?

we will likely use Chrome in the role of resource needed for advanced armored stuff. Its more or less used for similar purposes (creating stronger alloys). However, should it be useful for gameplay balance we might introduce more resources. Nothing is really set in stone
 
One more question regarding the product lines....
There is an temporary setback when switching from one model to the next one (Let's say Panzer III to Panzer IV).
Is there a higher punishment when I overjump a model?
Let's say that I start building Panzer IIIs. I continue building them despite that I could switch to the Mark IV tank.
Then, in 1943, I switch from Mark III to Panther production.
Will this be a more severe penalty then switching from Mark III to Mark IV?

If you switch to a whole new tank there is an equally big penalty for retooling no matter when they were researched.

1. Is the 15 factories/production line limit moddable?
2. Is offmap-IC still a thing? So that every country has at least x amount of each type?
1. yes
2. no
 
Wasn't a lack of Molybdenum also the cause for the me 262 engines to have such short lifespans, or was that other alloy metals? IIRC metal fatigue was the major killer there.

Not sure, sources I find just quote "strategic material" lack. The parts requiring high wear tolerance on the engine are noted as "hardened chromium steel". Odds are its a mix. Most high quality steel alloys contain up to about 6 different elements.

I'v seen quoted that around the time of the surrender they had come up with a new alloy that worked around the material shortages and could increase the engine lifetime over 10 times.

EDIT: the rotor blades I actually found the chemical makeup of: 30% nickel, 14% chrome,
1.75% titanium, and .12% carbon. No idea if Molybdenium would have improved it, its used in some high performance steels, or even if the rotor blades what was was giving up first.

If someone wants to go full retard here is blueprints and ananalysis of the 262 jet engine: http://www.enginehistory.org/German/Me-262/Me262_Engine_2.pdf
 
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Shipyards

1. do they all need to be in the same place for producing a single ship? All 10 in same province/harbor working on one battleship?

2. Will you need to designate which port the ship will be built in and appear in at start of production? Or can you start production of a battleship (as Germany) and when you later capture a Mediterranean port can you deploy it there?

3. Can you build harden shipyards like massive sub construction pens the Germans built? Or the underground aircraft factories? I know it was said that it will be hard coded to just the three types of ICs, some mods have added a Heavy Industry IC. Will we be able add sub types like a harden IC that could represent these types?

Other
4. Will equipment types, models, production cost/requirements be modable? Can we add things like trucks, motorcycles, jeeps, RSOs, Maultiers, and prime movers that have different cross country abilities?

5. Will smallarms with different types ( bolt action, semi-auto and assault rifles) require production or will they just be a tech difference?

1. No, can be spread out
2. No. realism has to take a step back because its a pain in the ass micro to sit and designate ports all the time
3. they arent special buildings, but we do have things that enable this kind of stuff. Later dev dairy
4. all is moddable
5. different equipment, although they come bundled with other more modern infantry relevant things at the same time. we'll talk more about that in a later diary