Hearts of Iron IV - Development Diary 2 - The Tools of War

[Marine]

I really liked this new approach regarding the tech trees and tank models.
Names is for flavor ,but they can have different stages of weapons to make them different than other countries on the same year.
I think also that Battle experience and some techs will make other values as well to the tanks ,so that they are not same for two countries having 1939 Tanks.

/Marine

 

[Cybvep]

You mean except for the Spanish civil war, Polish war, Japanese and Chinese border conflicts, and the Winter War?

Very good point. It's hard to say that the Soviets didn't gain any experience with various equipment and tactics before 1941.

 

[misterbean]

Wow, this sounds awesome. I really need to start playing HoI 3 to get used to grand strategy. Anyone have tutorial suggestions for new players to the series?

I do. If you go for Hearts Of Iron 3/For The Motherland expansion, look in my sig for a tutorial.

1) Sorry but it will be true. If you have the same tank type and same techs the stats will be identical. Podcat said the names are there for flavor.

2) There is a big change here but it was only hinted at. He implied that you need actual battlefield experience to unlock some techs. Sorry USA nothing for you till December 1941. So right now no one really knows.

Which would be why they s***ed bigtime when they first landed in Africa, and ended up facing the most experienced army in the world. Sounds about right. Then again, maybe US will be able to learn more quickly???

edit: I wanted to see the tech tree for exploding cats

 

[Charles Reeps]

Very good point. It's hard to say that the Soviets didn't gain any experience with various equipment and tactics before 1941.

In fact the Soviets did gain experience/knowledge.

 

[Charles Reeps]

edit: I wanted to see the tech tree for exploding cats

Ask in the "exploding cats" thread:laugh:

 

[Cybvep]

In fact the Soviets did gain experience/knowledge.

Well, yes, that was the point of that post...

 

[VonMudra]

Looks like an interesting tech tree, but I must ask, what about different variants of individual tanks? Like the Panzer III should, realistically, have a 37mm, short 50mm, long 50mm, and short 75mm variant, each with different combat capabilities. Just the same, the Panzer IV should have the early war short barrel variant, the long barrel mid war variant, and the late war slightly longer barrel variant. The same goes for armour with the increasing thickness on Panzer III and IV armour between 1939 and 1943. Will these be represented ingame? It would seem annoying to just 'unlock' a tank and it's just a generic model of that tank for all years of the war.

 

[Charles Reeps]

Looks like an interesting tech tree, but I must ask, what about different variants of individual tanks? Like the Panzer III should, realistically, have a 37mm, short 50mm, long 50mm, and short 75mm variant, each with different combat capabilities. Just the same, the Panzer IV should have the early war short barrel variant, the long barrel mid war variant, and the late war slightly longer barrel variant. The same goes for armour with the increasing thickness on Panzer III and IV armour between 1939 and 1943. Will these be represented ingame? It would seem annoying to just 'unlock' a tank and it's just a generic model of that tank for all years of the war.

I'm taking a "wait and see" approach to this. I find it hard to believe that these things won't be accounted for.

 

[keynes2.0]

Which would be why they s***ed bigtime when they first landed in Africa, and ended up facing the most experienced army in the world. Sounds about right. Then again, maybe US will be able to learn more quickly???

The allied forces lost one major battle in the Tunisia campaign at Kasserine. A month later they showed they could fight on equal terms at El Guettar. Overall the battle at Kasserine was a speedbump in a campaign that was a decisive allied victory with the allied forces steadily winning battles both before and after Kasserine.

Now you could suppose that the American forces were completely green after three months of campaign but that fourth month made all the difference and none of the battles before count. Or you could conclude that they were overconfident and outmaneuvered in a fairly small engagement (less then 10% of either army) and the German reputation for superhuman ability ran with the story so fast that the campaign being the worst defeat the Americans inflicted on the Germans never caught up.

 

[No idea]

Because the stats and math in the EXE would need to know composition of the unit each hour of combat. And now factor in that 10% of my PZ-III's are H and 30% have the upgunned J model etc.

No I have a hunch that you unit is restricted to just one type of tank. Else, I can have 20% Tiger's, 30% Mk-IV G, 30% Panther and 20% light tank. Would be cool but I highly doubt it. Ai couldn't keep up and it would be reinforcement nightmare time.

But divisions are composed of battalions. Why different battalions cant have different equipment?

 

[VonMudra]

But divisions are composed of battalions. Why different battalions cant have different equipment?

They absolutely did. Most divisions in Normandy had a mixture of Panthers and Panzer IVs of different varients, plus various French tanks being used for training, outdated Panzer IIIs, and even Panzer 1C tanks (38 saw service in Normandy). Hell, there were even Panzer IIIs serving at Arnhem in a mixed battalions of Panzer IIIs, IVs, and a couple Tigers.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Hell, there were even Panzer IIIs serving at Arnhem in a mixed battalions of Panzer IIIs, IVs, and a couple Tigers.

Panzer IIIs (of the long-barrel varieties) could still knock out most American and British tanks.

 

[EntropyAvatar]

Looks like an interesting tech tree, but I must ask, what about different variants of individual tanks? Like the Panzer III should, realistically, have a 37mm, short 50mm, long 50mm, and short 75mm variant, each with different combat capabilities. Just the same, the Panzer IV should have the early war short barrel variant, the long barrel mid war variant, and the late war slightly longer barrel variant. The same goes for armour with the increasing thickness on Panzer III and IV armour between 1939 and 1943. Will these be represented ingame? It would seem annoying to just 'unlock' a tank and it's just a generic model of that tank for all years of the war.

Keep in mind that this is an alternate history. So there is no particular reason that in my version of Germany a Panzer III will go through the exact sequence of upgrades that it did in real life. As I gather battlefield experience, I can upgrade the Panzer III with bonuses, hopefully to improve stats in ways that roughly correspond to larger, more effective guns, better armour, improved engines, etc. But there is no way there is going to be a detailed accounting. Similarly, though the tanks that fill the '1941 medium' slot for different countries had different characteristics, in this game they are going to be equivalent, at least until I expend that experience to provide some bonuses.

 

[IndoEsia45]

I hope the tech tree background corresponds to each nation. I'm also rather hoping for more extensive trees, offering various versions and chassis of the afv that can be researched. But then it's only pre-alpha.

 

[L'Afrique]

Also keep in mind that this is a grand strategy game and the differences between a PzIII J and a PzIII L are not all that relevant.

There's like 5 stats total for a battalion and the difference between 1939 and 1943 models is usually a couple points. What exactly is the point of modeling tank minutia that doesn't even affect the statline?

 

[VonMudra]

Also keep in mind that this is a grand strategy game and the differences between a PzIII J and a PzIII L are not all that relevant.

But the differences between a 30mm armoured and 37mm gunned Panzer 3 C and a 70-80mm armoured and long 50mm gunned Panzer 3 L ARE massive. That's the difference between French Suomas running rampant through fields of knocked out Panzer 3s, and the other way around. Same for a short barreled Panzer IV C or D being basically useless in tank v tank combat, and a long barreled one being quite capable at it, or a Panzer IV C being easy meat for Polish AT gunners, where a Panzer IV H would deflect 37mm rounds with ease. Making it a generic representation eliminates the ability to show real technological research and the race between tank and anti-tank combat.

 

[mursolini]

No VK3601, Vk3001, and Vk3002DB?

For crist sake, give us an option for early heavy German tank, that is similar to Matilda or KV.

And Pz4 as 1941 tech? This is madness, hope the alpha version will be improved and we can actually build a few Pz4s before invasion of Poland.

 

[tommo8993]

Dont really wanna get my hopes up for this game, just in case they cancel it less than a month before release.

 

[kiahoga]

So if I've read this right your totally divorcing production of equipment from division making i.e you have your factories making said equipment. And then when you want to build a division itll open mup a screen showing wha6t equipment you have available and you'll choose for example how many regiments what equipment mix for it from what you have available ect ect ect.

 

[civlibprof]

I like the new production model tied to the tech tree at least from the aspect of tanks, planes and ships. But how is this going to be modeled for infantry, I am no military historian, but even a novice like myself looking at a superficial wikipedia entry realizes that the major countries fielded largely different infantry. For example, Germany focused heavily on machine guns and AT weapons that were common in most infantry divisions. However, the USSR fielded largely a rifle based infantry with limited AT or MG capability. Japan focused on mines as a AT weapon--as opposed to the American Bazooka or the German Panzerfaust, Japan utilized grenade launchers over mortars.

My question is, will this be modeled in the game at some level? or is it just going to be abstracted as infantry small arms? I would hope that given the production system some level of detail can be applied to the different construction of the various countries infantries. I would like to have to make choices between producing, 100,000 Panzerfausts, 100,000 Mortars, or 100,000 MG42. Secondly if we do have this level of specialization how will it be handled in combat? How is combat going to work when a German Division that includes MG42s, and Panzerfausts comes up against a Russian Rifle division?