Hearts of Iron IV - Dev Diary 13 - Conscription & Training

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smurphy99999999

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Hey podcat can you comment on the upgrade mechanic in the screenshot? What kind of impacts on experience when switching from say panzer Is to panzer IIs? Can we upgrade a light tank brigade into a medium tank brigade? What impact does this have on training? What about changing existing divisions to conform to a new template?
 

Ibn_Solmyr

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Great news ! Very nice improvements since HoI3 !!

Please podcat, will we have such human pools for air and navy, and working in a similar manner ? Please, please, please, the air war for example was way more about the crews and pilots than the planes !!
 

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JustChaos said:
Actually I prefer wargames with a real time gameplay like Combat Mission or Graviteam Tactics - but both of them are tactical. HoI3 is a wargame in my opinion. It's only real time strategic wargame as far as I concern, and this is why I worried about an absence of OOB in HoI4.

I don't like games like Panzer Corps because it's turn based and hex based. I got into HoI3 in the first place because it was real time.

Try the Men of War series or Blitzkrieg 3 then.

I actually understand where you are coming from, because, as I have stated above, the only interesting and playable part of HoI3 was the (land) warfare. However, the HoI-series has always been about so much more than just the combat. It is supposed to be a grand strategy game and focussing too much on warfare takes time away from managing your country through the given amount of time. In DD 1 it was stated that one of the goals of HoI4 was to make the player consider different things than just the plain warfare to control the fate of the country. I wouldn't categorically oppose an OOB, the question is, whether a simpler, off the map version of an OOB has much to do with an OOB.

I think Paradox is doing a lot of things right with HoI4 that were messed up with HoI3. HoI3 attracted many new players that liked the warfare aspect of the game, at the same time it drove away many longtime fans of the HoI series because it was too one dimensional (and terribly buggy). HoI4 will certainly discourage some players that liked the way HoI3 was designed and while I feel sorry for those, I am certain it will attract many new (or even veteran) players that like to focus on all the things that were important from 1936-1949.

Besides all that, HoI4 will probably get the same kind of attention and post-release development that CK2 and EU4 are getting. So there will be a lot of DLC and maybe one introduces an OOB if it is not implemented into vanilla. For those of you crying foul now, because "if they put it in a DLC, then they could have put it in the original game", I actually don't want to talk to you, but rest assured that an OOB probably requires a lot of development time. And that time is pretty sparse for a new project that has to rework so many features since they were simply unappealing in HoI3. There is also a diabolic rule of thumb: The more people buy the vanilla game, the more time and money PDS is probably willing to invest into making popular DLC.
 

Wyrm

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Wow, this is like a lot of what we have been dreaming about here on the forums :D
 

Holy.Death

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Try the Men of War series or Blitzkrieg 3 then.
Men of War had annoying supply mechanic. Instead of making units automatically refill their main weapons you had to give units ammo one-by-one. It made re-filling a pain and at some point I just sent all units with no ammo running at enemy. It's one of a few reasons why I stopped playing it at some point, but the most common one. Don't get me wrong, I like semi-realistic elements, but when it becomes a busywork I want to kill - figuratively - the designer responsible.
 

nigo

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Men of War had annoying supply mechanic. Instead of making units automatically refill their main weapons you had to give units ammo one-by-one. It made re-filling a pain and at some point I just sent all units with no ammo running at enemy. It's one of a few reasons why I stopped playing it at some point, but the most common one. Don't get me wrong, I like semi-realistic elements, but when it becomes a busywork I want to kill - figuratively - the designer responsible.

they patched this 2 days ago :D
 

Maple Nukem

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Here's a question I think everyone would want to know in the end, can the manpower pool build back up? Does it still increase in some way? Or is it a fixed rate now that will only be effected by war and events?
 

George Parr

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Try the Men of War series or Blitzkrieg 3 then.

I actually understand where you are coming from, because, as I have stated above, the only interesting and playable part of HoI3 was the (land) warfare. However, the HoI-series has always been about so much more than just the combat. It is supposed to be a grand strategy game and focussing too much on warfare takes time away from managing your country through the given amount of time. In DD 1 it was stated that one of the goals of HoI4 was to make the player consider different things than just the plain warfare to control the fate of the country. I wouldn't categorically oppose an OOB, the question is, whether a simpler, off the map version of an OOB has much to do with an OOB.

I think Paradox is doing a lot of things right with HoI4 that were messed up with HoI3. HoI3 attracted many new players that liked the warfare aspect of the game, at the same time it drove away many longtime fans of the HoI series because it was too one dimensional (and terribly buggy). HoI4 will certainly discourage some players that liked the way HoI3 was designed and while I feel sorry for those, I am certain it will attract many new (or even veteran) players that like to focus on all the things that were important from 1936-1949.

Besides all that, HoI4 will probably get the same kind of attention and post-release development that CK2 and EU4 are getting. So there will be a lot of DLC and maybe one introduces an OOB if it is not implemented into vanilla. For those of you crying foul now, because "if they put it in a DLC, then they could have put it in the original game", I actually don't want to talk to you, but rest assured that an OOB probably requires a lot of development time. And that time is pretty sparse for a new project that has to rework so many features since they were simply unappealing in HoI3. There is also a diabolic rule of thumb: The more people buy the vanilla game, the more time and money PDS is probably willing to invest into making popular DLC.

I really don't see how HoI was about "so much more than that". HoI and HoI 2 were wargames, just like HoI 3 was. Their primary focus was on the war, anything else was a sideshow that hardly mattered at all. None of the HoIs were ever about nation-building or diplomacy, which made sense because the timeframe of the games were way too short for that. The main differences between HoI 2 and 3 were a much cleaner setup, the scale of the map (which was a good change because it fits the nature of WW2 much better than the doomstacks of 2), some changes to research (not all that important, though companies led to more immersion), a new supply system (which I guess didn't turn out as well as anyone had hoped and which at times had some serious issues) and a bit later on the introduction of the OOB (which was a big step in the right direction, though with some minor flaws that could be improved on). There was hardly any difference in terms of nation-building or diplomacy, at least on a scale that actually made a difference.
 

spinoza013

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Is Lee Marvin the leader of Podcat's Roughnecks?
 

JustChaos

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Try the Men of War series or Blitzkrieg 3 then.

And they are both RTS (first with a lot of interesting features which doesn't work all the time, but it's still RTS). I think I already played huge part of WW2 games and military games, and HoI3 was one of the latest discoveries.

Thanks for advice but I really know what I want here.

I actually understand where you are coming from, because, as I have stated above, the only interesting and playable part of HoI3 was the (land) warfare. However, the HoI-series has always been about so much more than just the combat. It is supposed to be a grand strategy game and focussing too much on warfare takes time away from managing your country through the given amount of time. In DD 1 it was stated that one of the goals of HoI4 was to make the player consider different things than just the plain warfare to control the fate of the country. I wouldn't categorically oppose an OOB, the question is, whether a simpler, off the map version of an OOB has much to do with an OOB.

I think Paradox is doing a lot of things right with HoI4 that were messed up with HoI3. HoI3 attracted many new players that liked the warfare aspect of the game, at the same time it drove away many longtime fans of the HoI series because it was too one dimensional (and terribly buggy). HoI4 will certainly discourage some players that liked the way HoI3 was designed and while I feel sorry for those, I am certain it will attract many new (or even veteran) players that like to focus on all the things that were important from 1936-1949.

I'm sorry if I sounding too exited, but I can't really understand that. Hearts of Iron series are games about 1936-1949. Hmm, let me think - what are the main event of this period of time? I don't know, maybe it's World War 2 - the biggest war in human history. The war when tens of millions of people fighting each other, and those armies wasn't organized in thousands of divisions only. There was very huge, deep and complicated military structure and HoI3's OOB is only place where I can dive into that staff, research various things about it and change it as much as I want or how it was.

I like everything what I know about HoI4,it has huge improvements in all parts, but I will really like if PDS tell us whether or not OOB is in the game.

Besides all that, HoI4 will probably get the same kind of attention and post-release development that CK2 and EU4 are getting. So there will be a lot of DLC and maybe one introduces an OOB if it is not implemented into vanilla. For those of you crying foul now, because "if they put it in a DLC, then they could have put it in the original game", I actually don't want to talk to you, but rest assured that an OOB probably requires a lot of development time. And that time is pretty sparse for a new project that has to rework so many features since they were simply unappealing in HoI3. There is also a diabolic rule of thumb: The more people buy the vanilla game, the more time and money PDS is probably willing to invest into making popular DLC.

OOB DLC is fine by me, I don't mind if OOB will be DLC feature. I recently bought all of CK2 DLCs because I love that game, and I bought all Magicka DLCs with two of my friends because it's great too.
 

Joppos

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I really like the fundamental mechanics of this system, but will it not be rather difficult for nations with many units under assembly to get a good overview of what's in their army planner list? Wouldn't tabs for arch-types and/or a summary of units in the list be a good thing, or is something like that planned perhaps?

There also seem to be no way to order batches of divisions, which could be a potential clickfest for large nations.
 

Darkath

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How do you handle oversea manpower and deployement ? Ie colonial divisions in india and africa for RU

What are the rules for deployement ? Can i deploy my divisions anywhere ? Can i keep my division in the deployement pool forever at max training and plop them down at the last minute ?
 

Searry

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Will the required number of experience needed to advance in the veterancy level be set in stone or can we affect it with modifiers?
This could simulate how training became more efficient during the war.
 

Skylax

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I really don't see how HoI was about "so much more than that". HoI and HoI 2 were wargames, just like HoI 3 was. Their primary focus was on the war, anything else was a sideshow that hardly mattered at all.

I'm sorry if I sounding too exited, but I can't really understand that. Hearts of Iron series are games about 1936-1949. Hmm, let me think - what are the main event of this period of time? I don't know, maybe it's World War 2 - the biggest war in human history. The war when tens of millions of people fighting each other, and those armies wasn't organized in thousands of divisions only. There was very huge, deep and complicated military structure and HoI3's OOB is only place where I can dive into that staff, research various things about it and change it as much as I want or how it was.

Ok, I obviously did not make myself clear enough, sorry for that. The war is, always has been and always will be the central element of the game. However, there are different ways to approach the implementation of the war into a computer game. One would be to solely focus on the tactical aspects of warfare. Let's call this branch "General/Heeresleitung Simulator". This is what Panzer Corps and games like that focus on. There is another approach though, something that made HoI unique: the focus on how to steer any country through the troubled times of the second World War. Of course, nationbuilding is reserved for the likes of Vicky and EU4 (and they do a great job with that), but HoI, in my opinion, has always been more than a mere warfare simulator. It is more a "Countryleader/Führer Simulator".

HoI2 was deeper into that specific country aspect than HoI3. First, there were nation specific tech teams. Then we also had those sliders that would determine certain parameters of our nation (autocratic vs democratic, planned economy vs free market, politcal left vs political right, interventionism vs isolationism and so on). Even the espionage system was way better in HoI2, I remember stealing blueprints from major powers and that really could make a difference if you had bad tech teams at your disposal. In HoI2, especially with the sliders, the players could kind of "create" their own country, each way the gameplay would be greatly affected. The most important point though is, that the player had more to do during peace. Stealing blueprints, trying to sabotage the enemys production, adjusting sliders to change your country and so on. The warfare aspect was (way too) minor. With HoI3 they went into a totally different direction, all of a sudden it was all about warfare and the rest was rather redundant or you just didn't have much time because micromanaging your troops sucked your time budget up.

With HoI4 they are trying to merge both concepts. This will naturally take some of the focus away from the warfare aspect, leaving all the OOBs and divisional commanders and stuff in there and then adding the pieces that made HoI2 great and successful would overburden the game. So what I actually want to ask for from anyone desperately trying to pursue PDS to "keep" all the tactical warfare stuff in the game is to understand all those players like myself, who liked HoI2, even though it didn't bother with much tactical warfare. I liked HoI3 for the tactical warfare, but there was something special about HoI2, otherwise it wouldn't have been played by so many for so many hours.
 

Mannstien

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This has given me another pro to add to my list, just a few more and I'll reconsider my position on purchasing the game even without a CoC (ADD IT PLEASE) but we will see what more diaries have to offer.

Cheers and thanks for the DD and Video.
 

jju_57

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There also seem to be no way to order batches of divisions, which could be a potential clickfest for large nations.

I think they said battle planner. In the stream he drew a box around a few divisions and selected a general. Then just clicked training.