Hearts of Iron IV - Beginner Tutorial - Battle Plans

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Modestus

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False
False


False you say False! What is false and how do you know its false please enlighten me but let me

enlighten you first.



The whole point of getting the Planning bonus is because you have trained and prepared to achieve a series of objectives (Offensive Front-Line) so its more then stupid to allow that bonus to simply recover whenever you halt a Division as it would defeat the reason for having the bonus and would mean the actual Offensive Front-Line itself would lose its relevance and importance.



If indeed you could halt a Division any time you wanted and regain the bonus then it would require manual intervention by the player because unlike some people I do not believe anyone in their right mind would attempt to program an AI that can ignore the Players instructions.


The only logical conclusion is that once you initiate a Plan the bonus will tick down and it will not tick back up again until you reach the Offensive Front-Line which means the location of the Offensive Front-Line and your ability to reach it is of some importance, THIS IS CALLED PLANNING.


The AI will always follow the Players instructions to reach the Offensive Front-Line and if the player does intervene and halt a Division the bonus will not tick back up or at least it should not tick back up but you never know the daft things that people end up doing.



Perhaps your right and no one needs to give a monkeys fart about the location of their Offensive Front-lines but that would be extremely disappointing so once again I will ask Paradox for clarification about the Planning bonus........


Once you launch an Offensive your Planning bonus starts to tick down when does it tick back up again?


1\ When you reach the Offensive Front-line?

2\ When you reach the Offensive Front-line and you have a second phase to your Plan?

3\ Any time you want just manually halt your Divisions? I assume on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the most stupid this is a 10.



Cheers.
 
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readingsnail

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Thanks for Tutorial!
 

Ayuso

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Nobody else realised the nuke nets to the factory output? I didn't see that on WWW videos!
index.php
 

Da9L

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Watch the Poland WWW, he got the planning bonus for his defense just by drawing in a "fake attack" and never executing it. So he got his dig in bonus, and his attack planing bonus even tho there was never a real thought of attacking or firing this plan. So its actually cheesing the system to get a double bonus.

It was said the planning bonus was implemented to counter the dig in bonus, not to be additive to it.

It's not additive, if you choose to attack you will lose all your dig in bonus and your planning bonus will start going down.
 
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BjornB

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Will we be able to view the video in the ingame wiki browser ?

When we tried it, it seems to work. There are a lot of factors involved however so we can't guarantee it works. It might also work for some and not for others.

Funny enough, D-Day is the Day of the swedish flag (a national holyday) in Sweden, so the devs won't go to work either. Although I suspect they might make an exception... atleast the poor buggers who make the launch-streams and stuff. If they are properly unionized they should get 150% bonus pay, which is why I loved working night-shifts at christmas/news year/midsummer day back when I worked in a hospital.

Those of us working with HoI4 will be in the office all evening :)
 
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Da9L

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Question, Once you launch an offensive and your bonus starts to tick down when does it tick back up again?


I will assume that it will only tick back up when you reach the Offensive Front-line and you have a second phase to your Plan.


I presume you do not allow the bonus to tick back up if the player simply orders a unit to stop.

As long as your divisions is attacking or moving they wont be gaining the planning bonus. Standing still and assigned to a plan is the way to make it tick up.
 
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Modestus

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As long as your divisions is attacking or moving they wont be gaining the planning bonus. Standing still and assigned to a plan is the way to make it tick up.

So if a Division is assigned to a Plan and you manually halt that Division during the implementation of that Plan your bonus will recover? I say manually because I presume under AI control a Division will not halt unless it reaches its objective or is stopped by the enemy.


So the next and blatantly obvious question is why would a Division that was manually halted stay in position? It is still assigned to the Plan and the Plan is being implemented by the AI.
 

steveh11

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Hello!

During this week we'll be releasing one tutorial video a day where glorious DDRJake explains some basic concepts of the game in an easy to understand manner.

The purpose of these videos is to make short and easy to find guides on specific topics. Once the game is released we expect a ton of user made let's plays and tutorials. Since these tend to be quite long, and it might be hard to find the specific thing you have questions about, We made these. I like to call them wiki articles in video format.

We start off with video #1 - Battle Plans! Enjoy!

Thank you for doing these, Jake. The "LP" type vids are far too long for me, but these add to the learning experience rather than taking away like the longer ones end up doing.
All respect to those that enjoy them, but honestly I'd rather spend the time playing other games myself (like, say, Stellaris) than watching someone else play an HOI4Beta for several hours.
 
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Modestus

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As long as your divisions is attacking or moving they wont be gaining the planning bonus. Standing still and assigned to a plan is the way to make it tick up.

Having reread what you posted I take it that if you execute the Plan you cannot as such manually halt a Division to regain the bonus, you can try but it will always want to return to AI control and execute the Plan.


Is this correct?


I understand from the AI Development Diary that........


We have been experimenting lately with a system of "stickiness"; if you give a unit a manual order it will stick to that location until front has moved on.”



So if you manually halt a Division that is executing a Plan it will return to AI control if the Front moves on, something that is extremely likely to happen considering the fact its an Offensive Plan.


Edit: I should say I think Paradox have missed out on an opportunity to make the Battle Plan system a real gem but it would require that manual intervention costs you the bonus and AI control, pity.
 
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Persiani

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Thanks for the tutorial guys :) it will defiantly help me out when i try out the game ! Seeing how the old HoI games were to hard for me to understand when they were released
 
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amgediusjupiter

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Watch the Poland WWW, he got the planning bonus for his defense just by drawing in a "fake attack" and never executing it. So he got his dig in bonus, and his attack planing bonus even tho there was never a real thought of attacking or firing this plan. So its actually cheesing the system to get a double bonus.

It was said the planning bonus was implemented to counter the dig in bonus, not to be additive to it.

right now it seems a bit weird to me getting the battleplan bonus even you are not executing the plan because you are in defense or whatever.
 
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Nicolas I

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If I understand strategic redeployment it's basically just shoving the guys unto trains and trucks/buses/whatever and go. Hence the loss in organisation. 500 km in trains, cramped in like sardines in 4 days doesn't seem unreasonable. My battalion moved roughly 300 km in a day with all our crap (mechanised, peacetime and modern day though) to get to an excercise.

There is a HUGE difference between moving a single battalion and whole armies. You would need enough trains (trucks/buses/whatever) to move everybody + equipment at the same time ?

That is unlikely when we know the logistics nightmare that was the East front for Germany. Trains would have had to go back and forth a couple of times.

If they were able to move all their armies together in 1 shot, they wouldn't have have any logistics problems whatsoever.
 
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JerkyJerry

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False you say False! What is false and how do you know its false please enlighten me but let me

enlighten you first.
This ought to be good! :rolleyes: J/K



The whole point of getting the Planning bonus is because you have trained and prepared to achieve a series of objectives (Offensive Front-Line)
It does not have to be a "series of objectives" it can be a single objective. A single provence a single state a single objective. So when I say FALSE sometimes it means that your terminology is not correct. I can't agree or not disagree when a statement like "a series of objectives" is stated. It gives the wrong information.

so its more then stupid to allow that bonus to simply recover whenever you halt a Division as it would defeat the reason for having the bonus and would mean the actual Offensive Front-Line itself would lose its relevance and importance.
If you "halted" a division that would mean that the division actually ....... moved. You can't halt something that has not been in motion. So when you put that into gameplay action..... it would mean that the actual Offensive Front-Line actually moved and was not stagnant.



If indeed you could halt a Division any time you wanted and regain the bonus then it would require manual intervention by the player because unlike some people I do not believe anyone in their right mind would attempt to program an AI that can ignore the Players instructions.
Correct. The human will always over-rule the AI.


The only logical conclusion is that once you initiate a Plan the bonus will tick down and it will not tick back up again until you reach the Offensive Front-Line
As stated in the above paragraph you the human can stop a division or divisions (or anything you like) to have them begin to regain their planning bonus. The bonus will begin to increase when the troops/tanks etc. have stopped. They have to be motionless to increase the bonus.


The AI will always follow the Players instructions to reach the Offensive Front-Line and if the player does intervene and halt a Division the bonus will not tick back up or at least it should not tick back up but you never know the daft things that people end up doing.
I don't know what daft things you are talking about however you are correct that the planning bonus will not increase until the units are halted. Either by the human stopping them or they reach their assigned goals within the planning bonus that you the human designed. When units are stopped their bonus will being to tick up again. They can reach the battle plan objective and have it begin to tick up or you can stop them before they reach their objective and have the battle plan tick up. You are in complete control. 100% control.


Perhaps your right and no one needs to give a monkeys fart about the location of their Offensive Front-lines but that would be extremely disappointing so once again I will ask Paradox for clarification about the Planning bonus........
Yes and no. You as a brilliant Field Marshall will be looking at your troops and individual battles along with master plan itself. If you see some of your divisions being beaten or not moving as fast as you wanted or having a difficult time moving through difficult terrain just like in HOI3 you as a brilliant General will do what it takes to achieve your goals. Whether it be, sending more troops, more planes, redirecting troops from another part of your offensive front, calling up reserves etc.


Once you launch an Offensive your Planning bonus starts to tick down when does it tick back up again?
When they stop. Just think of real life in the field. Your troops move 3 provinces. They fired 12,000 rounds, 14,000 shells, suffered 100 dead & 1500 injured. They 'may' have to stop to wait for reinforcements, ammo, water etc. Just like real life. Eventually an army will run out of things as they move faster and are further into enemy territory than their supply lines. Makes sense no?


1\ When you reach the Offensive Front-line?
When and where ever they stop moving.

2\ When you reach the Offensive Front-line and you have a second phase to your Plan?
It is just the act of stopping to re-arm, re-fuel, re-up manpower, etc. You don't have to have a second phase (which is why I said FALSE to your previous post). You may just want to stop right where you are.

3\ Any time you want just manually halt your Divisions? I assume on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the most stupid this is a 10.
Like I stated. Picture your forces in the field. In actual battle. They don't have energy weapons that never run out of ammo. Your soldiers are not machines they do require supplies to keep fighting.... food, water, bullets, shells, replacements, guns etc. etc. etc. Therefore in some battles against a really difficult opponent they may have to stop more than once to get supplies. Then again a country like Germany attacking a country like Albania well do you really need a battle plan for that?


The battle plan is totally optional. You don't ever have to use one and still conquer the world! Or you can make a battle plan that advances just one province at a time. Then stop, regain their bonus and then march onto the next province and stop again regain their battle bonus etc. etc. etc.

A battle plan can be as large as Russia or as small as Wake Island or anything in between. It is 100% flexible in that the human, you, are in charge of every single aspect of its implementation, it's changes it's intelligence gathering. The AI works for you.


Cheers
 
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blue_yonder

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I think Paradox have missed out on an opportunity to make the Battle Plan system a real gem but it would require that manual intervention costs you the bonus and AI control, pity.

Tentatively, (because we haven't played it blah blah) I have a feeling you might be right. But if you are, you should remember the history behind it; a year ago, two years ago, every innovation they told us about was judged not on its own merits, but relative to hoi3. Whether it was counters or maps or battleplans or anything else, people with thousands of hours invested in the previous game couldn't see past it and regarded its contents as holy writ. It was in that context that they backed down about the battleplans, because people wanted to have their planning cake and eat it too: "why should I be penalised if I want to micro?" etcetera.

But that's all changed in the past few months and apart from a few diehards, people are starting to evaluate the game on its own terms. So I'm not as pessimistic as you; by the time of the first or second dlc, they might feel it's possible, with only a minor shitstorm, to make battle planning logical. And logic, as you rightly say, requires that a spur-of-the-moment improvisation (aka manual intervention) can't rationally receive the same benefit as something planned in advance.
 
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JerkyJerry

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Edit: I should say I think Paradox have missed out on an opportunity to make the Battle Plan system a real gem but it would require that manual intervention costs you the bonus and AI control, pity.
HUH?
What?
Why would manual intervention cost the bonus and AI control?
 

JerkyJerry

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to make battle planning logical. And logic, as you rightly say, means that a sudden improvisation can't have the benefit of something thoroughly planned.
In this case then Marines would not exist. Well at least not American Marines.
Have you not heard of improvising, adapting, overcoming?

Why would you not think this is how it is in real life?
How are the two even remotely connected? Why would I lose the battle plan bonus because my trained troops improvised, adapted, overcame to achieve the battle plan goal(s)?

I'd love to read your reasoning.