Do they have a chance of surviving without Germany or the SU helping them? In that case they are nothing more than a buffer zone, not a sovereign country, much less a major power.
- 7
- 1
Hearts of Iron IV - 50th Development Diary - 1st of April 2016
- Thread starter podcat
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I said Vidkun or commies. You know, that fascist(not nazi) Quisling guy who really liked those Axis people. As for going Communist, the armies of the Soviet Union would just have to walk through 1940s Soviet parts of Finland to be of assistance. Also having Quisling wanting to "Gjør Norge greit igjen"(Make Norway okay again) and reclaim Jamtland to Norway, and then suddenly just taking everything of Sweden would probably help as well, here the Axis friends might help with some armies as well. The communist would, depending on when they take to power, have some reason to attack the Swedish government as well, but those reasons go very political and those discussions are rightfully shut down quickly here.
Obviously they have a bigger chance to survive than France, just to cover another part of your ignorance, Poland defended against Germany AND Russia for 36 days, France which is a "major power" did it for 46 days, whith actual help of allies and with knowledge of what they can expect.
- 5
A united Benelux in 1940 would have marginally less population than a united Scandinavia (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark) in 1940, and that is not counting the colonies. There are many more arguments to be made for such a constellation being a possible major power. Yet I wouldn't think any of the two (sorry, Luxemburg) countries worthy of a unique focus tree if China would not get one.
A potentially long story short: I'm sorry, but your arguments for Sweden don't make any sense.
A potentially long story short: I'm sorry, but your arguments for Sweden don't make any sense.
- 5
What if Sweden becomes the same ideology as you aswell? Again, relying on an ideology is not strength. That is just relying on the big guys, not being a big guy.
- 1
Yes, but that was due to extreme extreme incompetence. A power doesn't need to act as a power to be a power. They can still behave stupid and go down for it. France had the infrastructure, good strategic position and military to defend itself. It was because it's politicians and military advisors were completely daft. It was a political and military fuck up, but had they used their powers better then they could defenitely have held the Germans back. The poles were mobilized and ready for war. France was not.
Also, Finland held three months against the soviet compared to one month for Poland. What's your point?
- 6
- 1
Belgium doesn't have a chance to survive against germany because they don't have a military that can defend it's borders because of the flat terrain. If a nation can't preserve it's sovereignity, then it's not a major power.
- 9
- 1
Facists warring on fascists(unless there's an alliance) isn't unlikely, but then their powers would still be combined and that without fighting, still having Germany and Italy as a back up though. If both go commies, there wouldn't be any reason for war and everyone just enjoy the proletarian state untill the Germans invade and delcares on the whole Comintern faction.
Oh, and I'm not talking about being a big guy. Historically none of the Scandinavian countries deserve to be named a big guy, not even glorious Sweden.
EDIT: I'd agree that a united Benelux would be a lot better that a united Scandinavia. Especially taking into accounts that they have colonies. Saying they can't defend their homeland is irrelevant, as Sweden and Norway wouldn't been able to defend theirs either. In Norway we're super proud that we sunk a cruiser, even though we effectivly lost the war in a day. Now you're going to say "yeah, but what if we prepared and built up for it.:" Well, what if Belelux did?
Oh, and I'm not talking about being a big guy. Historically none of the Scandinavian countries deserve to be named a big guy, not even glorious Sweden.
EDIT: I'd agree that a united Benelux would be a lot better that a united Scandinavia. Especially taking into accounts that they have colonies. Saying they can't defend their homeland is irrelevant, as Sweden and Norway wouldn't been able to defend theirs either. In Norway we're super proud that we sunk a cruiser, even though we effectivly lost the war in a day. Now you're going to say "yeah, but what if we prepared and built up for it.:" Well, what if Belelux did?
So you are denying that a unified scandinavia could fend of German and soviet invasions?
Look, I can guarantee you, if you ever combine all nordic countries and Finland, make a good army, defense around viborg, and combine your navies to prevent a german ladning, then you will be able to tie up enough forces to make an actual impact. And this is assuming they both attack us at the same time.
Trust me, if there was any way to create a faction and still maintain control over all armies and production, then I couldn't care less if Norway was independant or not. I am just saying, by not having a unified foreign policy we get fucked over.
- 10
- 1
Correct, its just a suggestion and giant collection of useful debates and historical research for future modding/DLC efforts. Nothing more.
To explain the idea presented, Poland can either try to
1). Request a Soviet guarantee in exchange for military access (highly desired by the Soviets)
2). Try to buy time and hope Germany doesn't backstab you anyways
3). Throw your lot in with the allies and hope they actually provide aid this time should you hold out long enough
4). Form your own faction, Pilsudski's plan for an Intermarium coalition (between the seas) of Eastern European countries. (historically they had a binding alliance with Romania but never called into the war by Poland)
Just a lot of what-ifs.
Last edited:
- 1
- 1
I am holding out some hope that there will be future DLCs providing the different types of boots and other footwear for all the nations participating in the war. I can't see myself buying any game that fails to force the user into period appropiate footwear for their marching.
- 1
We know for a fact that neither Stalin or Hitler was interested in the idea of an independant Poland, and while making a faction with poland along with some other nations could make them last longer, it would not be enough to really make a difference since it would just end up being a hindrance until Germany takes care of France. Also, Hitler And Stalin was against such a faction, which made it impossible. Despite the Polish-Soviet Non-Aggression Act of 1932 the Kremlin joined in alliance with the Nazi Party to divide central and eastern Europe into two parts for each power to control.[50] The failure to create a strong counterweight to Germany and the Soviet Union, such as Piłsudski's Międzymorze, according to some historians, doomed the prospective member-countries to their eventual fate as victims of World War II.[29][30][51][52]Correct, its just a suggestion and giant collection of useful historical research for future modding/DLC efforts. Nothing more.
To explain the idea presented, Poland can either try to
1). Request a Soviet guarantee
2). Try to buy time and hope Germany doesn't backstab you anyways
3). Throw your lot in with the allies and hope they actually provide aid this time
4). Form your own faction, Pilsudski's plan for an Intermarium coalition (between the seas) of Eastern European countries. (historically they were allied with Romania but never called in their alliance)
Just a lot of what-ifs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium#Failure
At any rate, what you propose is a faction, not a country, and thus is no a major power.
I am just saying, France and England had a union, so why can't we?
- 8
- 2
Then call it "ideological conformism" or "ideological orthodoxy" or "ideological cleanliness" or something like that...
Tough you might be correct from an historical point of view, I still find that it's confusing with the contemporary use of this expression.
Last edited:
- 3
- 1
.png){kind=avatar}
This may have already been answered so I apologize in advance. When it comes to the political trees, do you have to change your ideology to match whoever you are joining. I ask specifically concerning Finland as they were a democracy who nevertheless joined the Axis. Will it be possible in game for Finland to invest in the liberty ethos tree and still join the Axis to reclaim land from the soviets?
The argument you made against Belgium being insignificant even though a united Low Countries block might not be, applies to Sweden and a united Scandinavia as well. Sure Scandinavia could be a theoretical major power, it also doesn't exist. Any country that fuses/annexes with several of it's neighbors would probably be a contender for "major" level power.
- 4
Poland + Czechoslovakia would probably hold off Germany in a purely defensive war in 1938 if the Soviet Union didn't also join in. Poland did contemplate settling their border dispute and poor relations in exchange for a guarantee but events moved too fast. Like I said, its just a bunch of what-ifs which had various degrees of planning.
Things were not set in stone until the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. History could have still taken a different turn after 1936.
- 3
German invasions - Depends, even if we prepared and actually managed to build a decent navy, we would still lose on our own. But thanks to joining the Allies, then we're safe. And if we join the Comintern, well then war most likely starts late and the German navy is killed by the British anyway - and then we can at least stay safe, unless we count Denmark.
Soviet invasions - No, just endless fortifications along the finish border and some ships up there would probably hold them off for at long time, and especially when the Germans starts wrecking the Soviets as well. Siding with the Allies would perhaps even scare off Soviet, and siding with the fascists would make a war on us become an invasion of the Soviet Union.
And how do one get enough manpower, industrial power and tech to actually beat highly trained, well equipped and well supported germans and just an endless amount of Soviet soldiers - that still has a better army than us - in the east?
Being in a faction doesn't make you non-independant, and if that's the logic, then joining a faction - even with neighbours - will make you less independant.
And just to make it clear, I'm going to play with a Nordic faction at some point, hopefully with all Nordic countries controlled by a player - it's going to be fun, but still a lost cause.
- 2