Hearts of Iron IV - 48th Development Diary - 11th of March 2016

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safe-keeper

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In other words, no more gamey 1939-1940 invasions of UK by Germany without a massive investment in air and naval power? Sweet!

I love the potential in MP games here, too. You'll actually have to station divisions in a harbour and have them sit there for the enemy to see as you prepare to launch your invasion.
 
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hewhoispale

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Very badly it seams. Air supply is no longer a thing so whole airborne assault is very much pointless. If you do an airborne assault you have to secure the port to supply them. That is dumb. But with the new air system, air supply would be problematic so they removed it.

No longer can you support your troops in the pocket, no longer can you supply your paratroopers behind the enemy lines. This reduces a lot of possibilities and general use of those troops, in landings or otherwise.

Invasion of Crete? Vanguard in Overlord and Sea Lion? Market Garden? Nope - ain't gonna happen. We really need air supply back, I hope it is returned in a patch as soon as possible. Maybe have it possible only between provinces with airports? Like naval convoys work, but in the air? At least that would be something if not 100% accurate.

It would go a long way in planning an invasion of any kind and have general use for supplying pockets.

Also consider that local supply is generated by VP locations, remember those French soldiers that held out for waaaaaaay too long early on in WWW? This just means that paratroopers need to be dropped on lightly defended VPs & ports or slightly in advance of other forces which can quickly relieve them, which seems like a fine way to use them to me.
 
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Secret Master

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Wait, so are there different kinds of landing craft, or are we just using generic convoys and our tech determines how "protected" our troops are when landing on beach?

Also, is naval supremacy a binary function, or is it more complicated?

For example: Germany and the UK are at war with each others alliances. The English Channel is a sea zone. What are the options for Naval supremacy? The UK only? Germany only? Or is it possible for neither side to have naval supremacy? Can Italy gain naval supremacy to let Germany run an invasion (faction wide supremacy)?
 
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Solfall

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Just a random thought: Would this mean that it might be worthwhile to make ''Coastal Artillery'' units, consisting of large amounts of artillery and maybe a battalion of infantry, with really high Soft attack but practically no defensiveness/organization? Just to take use of the phase where the attackers can't fire back. Weak countries with a lot of coastline, such as Sweden, are probably not going to be able to effectively defend every part of their coastline with proper divisions, but giving the enemy forces a good wallop while they're landing might weaken them and make it easier for regular army divisions to defeat them when they arrive. I imagine, that even with a port captured, an invading army will most likely be in a much worse situation supply-wise than the country being invaded.
Don't get me wrong. Organisation is a thing for coastal artillery. The battle of Norway is a good example of how important organisation is. Many coastal cannons were never fired because the crew didn't know what to do in such a situation and orders were delayed or never arrived. Being undermanned was also an issue.
 

Ibn_Solmyr

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Some were "dropped" but using heavy gliders not parachutes, like the Mk VII Tetrarch and M22 Locust light tanks. Only a few were used in actual operations and did not shine particularly.

Also it was a technology yet, even if not operational by that time. Russian made it though, very soon after the end of the war if memory serves : the tanks were paradropped and a few "retro-rockets" were triggering on before the tank reaches the ground, to soften the contact. They even tried to launch T-27 in 1940 yet, Bessarabia, but.. without any parachute ! :D
 

potski

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Wait, so are there different kinds of landing craft, or are we just using generic convoys and our tech determines how "protected" our troops are when landing on beach?
Tech determines several things:
make sure to research transportation technologies. The really useful ones are only available from 1940 (unless you research ahead with the penalties for that), but you can improve things like: Needing less transports to carry out invasions, halving the preparation time required, get extra defense from damage taken during invasion and speed up the time it takes for your troops to get out of the ships and on to the beach where they can fight.
The last one is the equivalent of using LSTs that can get large numbers of troops and their heavy equipment on to the beach very quickly.
 
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Gen.Schuermann

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as someone already said, then its not a large invasion and if enemy leaves a gap open its their fault. Its generally not a problem because swatting down single guys isnt so hard.

As you did not explicitly answer the question at hand, how easy is it to do a single div invasion and be followed up by ferrying in 10 additional divisions? Is there any cooldown? Can normal divisions only unload in naval bases?

I fail to see how I as Germany should guard the 100 french coastal provinces (I understand there are no more "naval landing only"-provinces as in HoI2, but roughly the same number of provinces as in HoI3?) against these "gamey" invasions. They'd be much harder to stop/intercept/notice than say an Overlord invasion. Surely this is not intended? That would render this otherwise excellent new mechanic moot?
 

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Tech determines several things:

The last one is the equivalent of using LSTs that can get large numbers of troops and their heavy equipment on to the beach very quickly.

Right, so it's just tech then. No building of specialized ships like in HOI3. Or do we use that tech to build new convoys to move the troops?
 
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RickInVA

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separate invasions, but you can see when ai plans to launch. you can also give over expeditionary forces

This seems very challenging and micro-intensive. I say that because, given the long lead time for an invasion (prep and planning), if I don't notice that my ally is planning an invasion for a month or so after they start planning it I may (likely?) not be able to get my own invasion prep done to coincide with it. That suggests that when invasions become possible I will have to be checking what my allies are planning all the time so as to not get caught unaware and therefore unable to cooperate.

This is part of my vehement objection to the way allies work (don't work) together in HOI3/4. IMHO there was no allied cooperation in HOI3 worth mentioning. I hope that things are better in HOI4, but explanations like this make me doubt there will be. How can the allies be The Allies if the USA, Britain, France (Free or otherwise), Canada, Australia, South Africa, etc., are all doing their own things with no central authority? Eisenhower was Supreme Allied Commander, not Supreme Allied Observer/Suggester/Follower. HOI2's Military Control was not a bad idea. I continue to hope for a new, robust, cooperation system.
 
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podcat

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If we keep following this path, we will start seeing random DD's about country X. Which for the most part people would care less.

We've already made a whole bunch of those. They seem well received (but we already covered all the majors now I think)

Wait, so are there different kinds of landing craft, or are we just using generic convoys and our tech determines how "protected" our troops are when landing on beach?

Also, is naval supremacy a binary function, or is it more complicated?

For example: Germany and the UK are at war with each others alliances. The English Channel is a sea zone. What are the options for Naval supremacy? The UK only? Germany only? Or is it possible for neither side to have naval supremacy? Can Italy gain naval supremacy to let Germany run an invasion (faction wide supremacy)?

you share supremacy with allies. Its binary, so it doesnt matter how much you have as long as you have enough to do invasions. Of course the things adding up to the supremacy value are all things you want lots of and that will help (like more fleet and air force)

there are no special landing craft, you use convoys and research techs to improve things.
 
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ZechsMerquise73

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Hopefully this'll help the AI actually do some naval invasions all the time instead of that 20% Chance the UK goes hog wild in the Netherlands. I want to see an AI German sea invasion of America so bad.
 

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If you make naval bombers destroy everything you will basically make navies largely pointless. Yes you need aircover but you can not sweep away the defender aircrafts by sending a massive amount of fighters and then send in a massive amount of naval bombers against their ships. If the enemy put up, lets say 10 fighters per capital ships, it will be very hard to dislodge these ships with airpower only, you have to send in your own ships, combined arms style which I think the whole game is about.
I suppose you're right. I guess my concern, then, is if it will be at all possible to counter the Royal Navy as Germany and make the Channel safe for German forces to ferry across. Using non-gamey tactics, that is. It should be extremely hard, no doubt, but I really don't think it should be impossible.

Also, I hope this new mechanic will breathe some life into the Pacific War. At least in DH, the US never seems to want to invade any Pacific islands.
 
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sandman2575

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"The main design goal for naval invasions has been to make invasions something that requires a lot of preparation to make it possible to pull off, [NOT] combat "gamey" tactics of sneaking troops in when others are not looking and make it clear how you go about defending yourself, something that requires both navy, air and land."

Assuming there was meant to be a "Not" inserted where I've inserted it --

It's succinct evaluations like this from Podcat that give me so much faith that HOI4 is going to be great. In game area after area -- research, diplomacy, air combat, operational planning and logistics, etc. -- I really get the sense that Podcat and his team went painstakingly step by step through HOI3, pinpointed its weaknesses, and figured out ways to avoid the same mistakes in HOI4 and to improve the game as a whole.

I don't agree with every design decision (I sorely miss the chain of command / order of battle organization), but overall I think HOI4 is going to be a massive improvement on its predecessor.

PLEASE
COME
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Nelfe

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We've already made a whole bunch of those. They seem well received (but we already covered all the majors now I think

Maybe a DD on how Spanish Civil War is handled, as it seems you made it quite different from the civil war mechanics included in the game. Other than, you covered all big countries of this era.
 
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safe-keeper

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It’s stupid how every week goes by without release information. If we keep following this path, we will start seeing random DD's about country X. Which for the most part people would care less. But hey it eats up another Friday of a DD. :rolleyes:
It's funny; pretty much every time I see someone say "people" on the Internet, they seem to be speaking only for themselves.

Dev diaries and contents on nations, major and minor, are in fact a popular feature both here on the forums and in other media. See for example Quill18's "tour of the world" video series where he presented all the nations and regions of Europa Universalis IV.

But yeah, I'm sure Paradox is witholding info only to troll you. Then again, knowing Podcat, that's not an entirely impossible thought...

"The main design goal for naval invasions has been to make invasions something that requires a lot of preparation to make it possible to pull off, [NOT] combat "gamey" tactics of sneaking troops in when others are not looking and make it clear how you go about defending yourself, something that requires both navy, air and land."

Assuming there was meant to be a "Not" inserted where I've inserted it --

It's succinct evaluations like this from Podcat that give me so much faith that HOI4 is going to be great. In game area after area -- research, diplomacy, air combat, operational planning and logistics, etc. -- I really get the sense that Podcat and his team went painstakingly step by step through HOI3, pinpointed its weaknesses, and figured out ways to avoid the same mistakes in HOI4 and to improve the game as a whole.

I don't agree with every design decision (I sorely miss the chain of command / order of battle organization), but overall I think HOI4 is going to be a massive improvement on its predecessor.
This is how I feel, too. It's like they looked at HOI3 and went "you know, this is pretty broken. How do we fix it". There are still big and small things I'm concerned about (things like no fuel, for example), but I think this is going to be great. Especially when the modders throw themselves at it and make works like what BlackICE has become. Sometimes I'm more eager to see what modders will be able to do, more than I am at seeing the game itself :D .
 
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Razielus

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I have a question.
How this system works in for example - invasion of Norway where in fact Germany didn't had naval supremacy ?
In fact a success of this invasion was a mix of surprise and luck

@podcat
 
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Axe99

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Cheers for the DD Podcat, and I hope you're feeling a good deal healthier this week (and that your taste in movies has recovered as well :p) :D. I like a lot about the new system - needing naval and air superiority, having to plan invasions, and the notifications:

you get told:
1. when the invasion is spotted. If you have radar and ecryption/decryption thats early. or if you have ship patrols around and they spot it
2. if all else fails the second the transports enter the province next to your shore you get told

Notifications when it's spotted by radar and encryption is seven shades of cool, useful and plausible B).

However (and I suspect unsurprisingly :)) I'm a tad disappointed that the largest class of fighting ships built during WW2 has been abstracted to the equivalent of merchant ships or passenger liners. While there were some temporary merchant ship conversions (of liberty ships, for Guadalcanal in the most part), these weren't terribly successful, and other invasions had to be delayed or called off because they hadn't built enough landing ships to carry it out. In HoI4, however, it's likely that the UK and US will start the game with enough convoys to be able to carry out Overlord from Day 1 (unless they have their merchant shipping seriously nerfed).

I understand why this was done - LST's aren't sexy (well, to most people, I like 'em) - but is there any chance of setting the engine up to allow us to mod in a separate pool of ships for naval invasions, compared with transports? That way, those of us interested in a more plausible experience still have to think a bit more strategically (ie, plan our naval transport construction before big invasions), but players that aren't interested in that kind of depth can roll with the default system? There were more LST's built than Type VII U-boats (in fact, I suspect there were more LSTs built than submarines, full stop, and there were comfortably more landing ships of all types built than subs), and they were probably about as important to the outcome of the war as the subs - it'd be nice to at least be able to mod them in.

In other words, no more gamey 1939-1940 invasions of UK by Germany without a massive investment in air and naval power? Sweet!

Yes and no - now that convoys = landing ships, Germany gets a free invasion fleet at the start of the game in the form of its merchant fleet. I do agree that the new system is generally better though, even with this :).
 
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Is there any range limitation to invasions? Or could I invade from New York landing in Singapore?
From what he said, my guess would be that there isn't a range limitation. However, since you have to have naval superiority in EVERY STRATEGIC NAVAL REGION the invasion passes through, you might have a hard time keeping that up in a dozen or more regions.
 

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Yes and no - now that convoys = landing ships, Germany gets a free invasion fleet at the start of the game in the form of its merchant fleet. I do agree that the new system is generally better though, even with this :).
Then again, they didn't need specialised landing craft in Weserubung. They were just like "nah, we'll just barge into your fjords with warships and disembark troops right at your harbours" ;) .
 

jpinard

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Lots of nice stuff there. Would any of the developers care to share how this looks on monitors that are over 1080P (1920x1080)? I really want this game but don't want to damage my vision worse than what CK2 and EU IV have done to me. Running non-native resolutions is not a good option for many of us because game's get so fuzzy. In my case, my screen resolution is 2560x1600 - well below what most modern tv's and even new laptops run (check out the extremely popular Razer Blade Stealth laptop which runs at 3840 x 2160 a 4k resolution).

I really hope this growing segment of the gaming market is not ignored for the 5th straight year.
 
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