Hearts of Iron IV - 45th Development Diary - 19th of February 2016

[potski]

podcat has given the large purple Infantry Army a front that includes those provinces and an objective which includes Latvia all the way to the coast. And an order to attack, when he Executes the plan. Why would they not carry out their orders?

He also explains:

When you have drawn an offensive line you can hover mouse over its arrow and the game will show you a map highlighting step by step of how your units would move to take this area (the green strips in the picture below)

In this case you can see that the green hatched area does not include any provinces in front of the right-hand side of the first phase objective line (which goes off the bottom of the picture). That indicates that it won't advance beyond those provinces. It is only going to advance on the left, because the right side is not facing towards Moscow.

He could have shown the same type of screenshot for every Army, and that would have confirmed whether the large purple Infantry Army would advance into the provinces over the river on the coast. It's up to him to make sure this is the case - not the AI - if this is an essential part to his plan. He may not - he may have given all of the Panzer Divs engineer companies, and be satisfied that they can make the river crossing on their own.

If the graphic indicates that the Infantry are not going to attack over the river, because it's main axis of attack is too far east than north east, then he could adjust the offensive line until he could see the provinces he wanted were included. Or split the Infantry Army into two subgroups and give an explicit command to those 9 Infantry to advance in the same northerly direction as the Panzers towards Riga in the first phase. Because of the speed difference they should act as a follow up force, and deal with any pockets left behind by the Panzers. They can merge into the rest of the Army in the second phase, or remain as a separate flank group for the assault towards Leningrad.

You have to manage the Armies, their fronts, their axis of attack. Their priority in equipment and manpower. Check their supplies are adequate. Ensure they are trained. There is air cover to protect your units, and the enemy ahead of them are being attacked by your CAS/TAC.

Adjust the plan as you go, if things develop differently than you expect of course. But also adjust the plan when you are preparing it to make sure it is going to try to do what you intend it to do. Adjustments can be by the occasional manual order to units under the AI Armies. Or by orders to some reserves outside of the battle plan, such as some new Divs that are created during the campaign. But he also said that you can change the exact positions of the offensive lines while the plan is being executed.

 

[Dinglehoff]

Can battleplans be used in retreats? Can the user draw these plans going back into Germany and benefit from them, when the Red Army pushes the player back into Germany?

 

[andersonm]

I am not sure I expressed my concern properly. I know that I can split off the mountaineers into a separate command group and assign that command group a portion of the front line. My concern is how the AI will distribute my forces in a single command group along the portion of front line that I assign for that command group. If my mountaineers are in the same command group as my regular infantry (20 divisions made up of 4 mountain, 16 regular infantry), I can give the mountaineers manual orders to go to the province along the front where I know they will have to attack into mountains. Then I can give the regular infantry manual orders to go to the provinces where they will be attacking into hills and plains. However, once all the divisions get to where I have manually ordered them to go, they will revert to AI control. Once all the divisions are under AI control, will the AI sit tight with my dispositions or will the AI jumble the mountaineer and infantry divisions together along the front line according to some incomprehensible algorithm? (that is what it would do in Hoi3) I would rather not have to create a separate command group just for 4 mountaineer divisions, because then you have the trouble of overlapping front lines (as in your example above) or the difficulty of coordinating two adjacent front lines for two separate command groups operating next to each other.

If you want different divisions to do different things then you should clearly create a separate group with it's own plan. Of course they are going to "jumble it according to an incomprehensible algorithm" because how could the computer possibly understand your plan if you don't enter it into the system provided?

If you have two objectives or routes it is easier to create two groups with two plans than it is to create one generic plan and then have to adjust it constantly.

I'm not sure I understand the argument made by those who were planning on micromanaging everything anyways but then don't want to have to make adjustments to the Battle Plan... you would have been playing on slow and making constant changes anyways, don't really see the difference.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

First time I clicked on this thread, I thought "oh, boo, another filler diary" and closed out.

Going back later, I realized that this is one of the best features that's been announced. I'm really looking forward to using it... together with the National Focuses (that's what they're called, right?), this has sold me.

 

[agentgb]

Can battleplans be used in retreats? Can the user draw these plans going back into Germany and benefit from them, when the Red Army pushes the player back into Germany?

hmmm take from that what you will? sounds like to me you can do entrenchment (digging in) so i'd imagine you may want some forts waiting for you in germany to help bolster your dig in bonus, and battleplans are mostly offensive.

(page 7)

 

[Dinglehoff]

hmmm take from that what you will? sounds like to me you can do entrenchment, and battleplans are mostly offensive.

(page 7)

Thanks. That does answer my question. The answer appears to be no, you can't battleplan a retreat for a bonus.

 

[Count Drew]

I have to say, awesome. So far as I can see, I mean I never know till I Test Drive something. I know when I load up HOI3 I don't feel the smoothness I am seeing here. When I load up HOI2 I want more. When I see this I have high hopes and I will probably buy regardless just out of addiction. Though love will be developed by designer's love to make it the most cool and interesting piece of programming for wargaming out there.

 

[mdw1985]

Can i draw an offensive line for each single unit?

 

[Modestus]

podcat has given the large purple Infantry Army a front that includes those provinces and an objective which includes Latvia all the way to the coast. And an order to attack, when he Executes the plan. Why would they not carry out their orders?

He also explains:

In this case you can see that the green hatched area does not include any provinces in front of the right-hand side of the first phase objective line (which goes off the bottom of the picture). That indicates that it won't advance beyond those provinces. It is only going to advance on the left, because the right side is not facing towards Moscow.

He could have shown the same type of screenshot for every Army, and that would have confirmed whether the large purple Infantry Army would advance into the provinces over the river on the coast. It's up to him to make sure this is the case - not the AI - if this is an essential part to his plan. He may not - he may have given all of the Panzer Divs engineer companies, and be satisfied that they can make the river crossing on their own.

If the graphic indicates that the Infantry are not going to attack over the river, because it's main axis of attack is too far east than north east, then he could adjust the offensive line until he could see the provinces he wanted were included. Or split the Infantry Army into two subgroups and give an explicit command to those 9 Infantry to advance in the same northerly direction as the Panzers towards Riga in the first phase. Because of the speed difference they should act as a follow up force, and deal with any pockets left behind by the Panzers. They can merge into the rest of the Army in the second phase, or remain as a separate flank group for the assault towards Leningrad.

You have to manage the Armies, their fronts, their axis of attack. Their priority in equipment and manpower. Check their supplies are adequate. Ensure they are trained. There is air cover to protect your units, and the enemy ahead of them are being attacked by your CAS/TAC.

Adjust the plan as you go, if things develop differently than you expect of course. But also adjust the plan when you are preparing it to make sure it is going to try to do what you intend it to do. Adjustments can be by the occasional manual order to units under the AI Armies. Or by orders to some reserves outside of the battle plan, such as some new Divs that are created during the campaign. But he also said that you can change the exact positions of the offensive lines while the plan is being executed.

Good explanation I see what you mean about the green hatched area showing you the attack areas and that if you did need a second Front for the 9 Divisions in the North you could create it.


Even though the Panzers in the north would appear to be advancing on a narrow Front the green indicators (other screen) would suggest that the area of advance around an axis is quite wide so rather then encircling the enemy most attacks will push them back.


Perhaps there is a relationship between the length of the starting Front line and the length of the ending Front line and the area of advance around an axis?

 

[Qrt_La55en]

Can i draw an offensive line for each single unit?

In theory yes, but that would proberly require that every single unit is its own army with its own general

 

[Lt Dogbone]

Ok so I have a plan that has say six divisions attacking one province from another province. Since they wont all fit on the front, what decides which divisions will take the front line and will stay in reserve? And similarily, I have a defensive line with six divisions that is attacked, what decides which divisions will take up the fight and which will stay in reserve?

 

[tommylotto]

Can battleplans be used in retreats? Can the user draw these plans going back into Germany and benefit from them, when the Red Army pushes the player back into Germany?

Is this not what you are looking for? I am not quite sure how this mechanic described by podcat works.

Fallback Line:
This lets you paint a line useful both for say setting up a defensive position behind a river or other position (for example a coastline). They are very useful for falling back in a controlled manner as well by reassigning your attackers to it they will instantly rush back and hold that point instead (I do recommend leaving some defenders to slow the enemy during your retreat).

 

[Blecky]

Is this not what you are looking for? I am not quite sure how this mechanic described by podcat works.

But these fallback lines don´t give a bonus, do they?

 

[paranoidsteve]

But these fallback lines don´t give a bonus, do they?

The defensive bonus is being dug in

 

[safe-keeper]

Would be interesting if fallback lines did give some sort of bonus, like if a fallback line that had existed for x days let soldiers dig in faster, simulating that plans exist in advance for how best to fortify the area.

hmmm take from that what you will? sounds like to me you can do entrenchment (digging in) so i'd imagine you may want some forts waiting for you in germany to help bolster your dig in bonus, and battleplans are mostly offensive.

(page 7)

I love that you took an actual screenshot instead of just hitting quote .

 

[Mamluke]

Would be interesting if fallback lines did give some sort of bonus, like if a fallback line that had existed for x days let soldiers dig in faster, simulating that plans exist in advance for how best to fortify the area.


I love that you took an actual screenshot instead of just hitting quote .

in your case, I say Building forts level 2 or 3, is a much better solution, otherwise its way to easy. if one really cares for that kind of defensive plan, then invest some IC for it.

heaving Units dug-in in good terrain should be a good enough "bonus" in my opinion

 

[RVallant]

Would be interesting if fallback lines did give some sort of bonus, like if a fallback line that had existed for x days let soldiers dig in faster, simulating that plans exist in advance for how best to fortify the area.


I love that you took an actual screenshot instead of just hitting quote .

Why though? IIrc a fallback plan is where you want to pull back to when SNAFU happens. You advance, they've got super-weapons and forts, you can't really maintain an offensive as you'd lose too many men, but you can't stay in your current positions as it isn't defensible. The fallback plan pulls back to the better position so you can re-consider the attack vectors.

If a defensive line is wanted, I'd assume having reserves mixed with garrisons digging in on defensive lines behind the advance would be the best way to 'hold the line' while you pull back men I guess?

 

[ObssesedNuker]

So wait... if you can only draw the frontline along the immediate border, how are you supposed to prepare for a defensive fight where you don't want your troops stationed right on the border when the war begins but instead a ways back from it?

 

[grandad1982]

So wait... if you can only draw the frontline along the immediate border, how are you supposed to prepare for a defensive fight where you don't want your troops stationed right on the border when the war begins but instead a ways back from it?

Fallback Line:
This lets you paint a line useful both for say setting up a defensive position behind a river or other position (for example a coastline). They are very useful for falling back in a controlled manner as well by reassigning your attackers to it they will instantly rush back and hold that point instead (I do recommend leaving some defenders to slow the enemy during your retreat).

 

[Paglia]

Time for another friday diary! Today I'll be talking about one of the biggest changes in Hearts of Iron IV compared to the previous titles: Battle Plans.

Design Goals
When I started looking at what direction to take HOI4 for unit control and provinces I first looked at HOI2 and HOI3 to see what worked well and what didn't.

HOI2
+ Fewer provinces making full manual control always possible
- Few provinces leads to a lot less cool encirclements and removes a lot of interesting tactical gameplay

HOI3
+ Lots of provinces allowing encirclements and interesting gameplay
+ HOI3 had a purely cosmetic battle plan drawing system, and still people used it - because drawing plans feels natural in a strategic wargame like this and it feels right to see and makes showing things to others in say AARs easier.
- Lots of provinces means manual control everywhere can be overwhelming, difficult to manage in multiplayer and annoying in areas where you "don't care so much".
- You could hand over control to HQ units run by AI for you and give them objectives. The problem was that effectively you had very little control, and features that play themselves are generally not a good idea. Giving up control also isn't something most players like to do.

For HOI4 we decided we wanted to attempt the best of both. Keep the high province count, always allow manual control override, enough tools to automate parts that didn't matter and control and feedback when managing lots of units at the same time so you would not be surprised by the system doing things you didn't tell it. The system is specifically not allowed to be clever, that is the player's job, so if you tell it to suicide into the maginot line it will say it thinks it's too risky, but do it anyway.

The battle plan system in HOI4 lets you draw plans on the map which are followed by assigned divisions, but at any point you can go in and reassign things or issue manual overrides. The player's role is then basically to draw up high level plans and to watch for opportunities and situations to take advantage of (such as small encirclements, or prioritizing fighting a certain enemy, or cutting off someone's retreat). Generally the strategic situation will change over time, so while you may have prepared a longer plan expect that you will need to improvise and adapt parts as you go or break off a group to manage some emergency, or particularly stubborn enemy section.


Controls
Battleplans are controlled for each Army and you have several tools for drawing them:

Naval Invasion & Paratrooping:
Used for planning naval and paratrooper invasions. We will cover these in a diary in 2 weeks or so.

Assign Frontline:
Used to assign divisions in an army to a frontline. You can either assign to the whole frontline with a nation by clicking it, or click and drag to assign just a part of it. Having an assigned frontline is required for making offensive plans because you need to know where to attack from.

Offensive Line:
This tells divisions assigned that you want them to advance along their axis of attack (represented by an arrow that you can bend and adjust as you want) from their assigned frontline to the offensive line. You can chain several of these together if you want as well.

Offensive lines and frontlines may also be overlapping. I prefer to assign a big front line of infantry to a frontline with a broad attack plan, and then manage my panzer divisions or other breakthrough units along smaller sections of that front and with a much narrower offensive line. In my barbarossa plan above Guderians panzer divisions are operating in this way together with von Rundstedt's infantry.

When you have drawn an offensive line you can hover mouse over its arrow and the game will show you a map highlighting step by step of how your units would move to take this area (the green strips in the picture below)

Fallback Line:
This lets you paint a line useful both for say setting up a defensive position behind a river or other position (for example a coastline). They are very useful for falling back in a controlled manner as well by reassigning your attackers to it they will instantly rush back and hold that point instead (I do recommend leaving some defenders to slow the enemy during your retreat).

Garrison Area:
For this order you give the army an area of responsibility instead of a frontline. Divisions will spread out to guard the most important provinces, keep resistance down, or take back provinces as long as it's pretty safe. So useful for home defense, or mop-up of areas.

Assign Divisions
Lets you quickly reassign divisions between frontlines, attack orders or command groups. Super useful and you'll be mostly accessing it by holding down the Control key.

Edit Mode
Lets you adjust any part of a plan by clicking this or holding down the Alt key. You can do things like changing the axis of attack, reshaping offensive or fallback lines.

Delete
You can of course delete whole plans (just right click), or parts of plans (click on the plan on the map).


Planning Bonuses
Battle plans are not just a way of controlling your units, they also come with advantages if you put the time in to prepare them. The longer you prepare a plan the more bonus is acquired up to a point that depends on your doctrine. For example Mobile Warfare Doctrine gives you faster planning but you can only plan to half the level of a player using Grand Battleplan (Even units given manual order as part of a plan will gain this bonus by the way). As you progress along the plan the bonus slowly goes away, so you may want to time it to coincide with a good defensive position for regrouping. There are also certain leader traits that improve planning and can create powerful combos with the right doctrine.


Next week we will take a deeper look at Britain.

Does this means you can now mod the AI to adapt by relying on various predetermined battleplans ?