Hearts of Iron IV - 40th Development Diary - 15th of January 2016
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Not all factories of the world is counted as IC... And as i've said before, why should a Island with 40 thousand inhabitants get 1 factory when a city of about 10 million, like London, only gets 12.. Doesn't really make sense
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Same reason why a region with 600-700,000 people get 6 slots, but London have more then 10 times that population! Why do they only get 12 then! Right?
London is still a Megapolis, much larger then an island like gotland, there is no reason the largest island in the baltic sea cant be counted as Pastoral region.
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OMG! What a beautiful UI you guys are building! I cant wait for this release! I hope that you have taken a close look at other MODS such as BLACK ICE for nerdrefactoring. But what a gorgeous interace! So much better than the HOI III interface
Welcome to another development diary for Hearts of Iron IV. This week we look at some of the changes that has been done to the game lately.
In december, we completely revised how you get factory slots in the game, as the previous system of three different caps, depending on hidden formulas for manpower & infrastructure was too obtuse for players, and impossible to balance.
Now the system is much more clear. Each state is set to a regiontype, which defines the basic amount of factory slots it has. Then we have various national focuses which will add to the cap of factory slots in a state, and finally there are various techs that give percentage bonus to how many factories a state can have.
Code:Megalopolis Region 12 Metropolis Region 10 Dense Urban Region 8 Urban Region 6 Sparse Urban Region 5 Developed Rural Region 4 Rural Region 2 Pastoral Region 1 Enclave 0 Tiny Island 0 Wasteland 0
Some examples: Svealand is an urban region, Amazonas a wasteland, and Greater London Area is a Megalopolis Region. Gibraltar is an enclave, and Gotland is a small island.
We also changed the State mapmode to colorise the states depending on which regions they belong to.
World Tension was introduced back in the 16th development diary. It was then just a number in the topbar, with a clunky tooltip explaining it. Now it has a graphical indication as well, and opens up a detailed window, where you can view all active impacts on World Tension, and sort them.
Next week, we’ll talk about command groups and also about leader traits.
I like the new system more than the old one, but maybe Paradox could enable the old system with an ingame option or mods. Basiclly I ask Paradox if they could keep the old system somewhere in the game data, to make the people happy who want it.
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I think declaring war on minor or major should have clear difference in world tension. Also limited war should increase world tension less.
Also making peace should decerease world tension much more than 0.3 or something.
Also making peace should decerease world tension much more than 0.3 or something.
What would be the point? They'd have to work on balancing two different systems. New game, new systems.
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You complain about the London area being under-represented, I complain about Gotland not being represented at all. Your complaint is a luxury complaint in comparison.
Sweden was a very industrialised country by this point in history, with native military industries for everything, and I fear that the new system that does not consider infrastructure will severely limit the capacity and fun for somebody who chooses to play as Sweden. That's why I will argue for even small regions like Gotland to have factory capacity.
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I assume Sweden as a whole will still have a fair bit of industry. But it was a small country, with small output. The country as a whole produced less than London alone, because it had maybe 2/3 the population. Unless you're planning on turning Gotland into its own separate country, it having factories would be kind of silly.
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With that reasoning you could argue for all of Sweden to have less factory output than the London region, which also doesn't make any sense as such a scenario would poorly reflect Sweden's historical military capacity during the war.
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The can stop the work on the old system, I just ask if they could avoid to just throw away the old one, but instead give it to moders. That means the work they did for the old system is not lost, but they dont need to spend more work on it.
But they would need to spend time on it because it would have to be adjusted and made work with the current HoI4 setup. That's time that is better spent elsewhere.
I trust Paradox to make the best decisions for their game(s). If they felt the need to scrap a system and start over then it was probably for a very good reason.
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IMO you should be able to build infra in depopulated or very lightly populated areas. Let's not forget such examples as Petchora railway or how US engineers created infrastructure to support all the island hopping in the Pacific.
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Do you mean "add" in the literal sense, e.g. +1? So that it would become possible to build factories on Wake Island?
Depends on what you regard as a "factory". I used to live in a small town called Hebburn in northern England, with a population about that of Gotland:
The three large buildings in the middle of the picture are part of the Reyrolle factory, which made switchgear for power stations. My father, uncle and aunt all worked there for many years. At it's peak it employed 12,000 people.
In the background you can see the River Tyne. The ship is tied up at the Swan Hunter shipyard in Wallsend (another small town on the other side of the river). The slipways are just off to the left. That ship will be getting fitted out before undergoing ship trials. While I was a teenager (along time ago!) the berth was occupied by:
HMS Ark Royal (the more modern one with the first ever ski jump, not the WW2 version, I'm not that old). Swan Hunter didn't build any CVs 1936-46, but built about 110 ships. Yes, over 10 per year, including everything from LCTs, convoy ships, DDs, and cruisers.
There were also ship repair facilities on the Hebburn side of the river, just out of shot of the picture, including the largest dry dock in Europe, which was used to repair some notable ships:
This was HMS Kelly commanded by Louis Mountbatten (the Queen's uncle) after being torpedoed in Norway in 1940. She was repaired, and served in the Med, including trips to Malta. She was sunk after dive bombers struck her in the Battle for Crete. Many of the men lost were from the area.
In the top left of the picture, you can just make out the three slipways of the Armstrong Vickers shipyard, with at least one ship half built. In 1936-40 they built 6 DDs, 2 CLs and this:
That's just three factories in HOI4 terms (one civilian, two naval dockyards) all in one picture, and there is a cap of six on the whole Northern England state. Yet I can name a number of other very large industrial enterprises - Vickers Armstrong naval yard at Barrow that built subs, several other large shipyards, the Vickers Armstrong factory in Newcastle which built artillery and tanks, the Parsons factory which made marine turbines, the Cleveland Bridge company, the Billingham ICI chemical works, the Shildon railway engine works, the Consett steelworks...
What, exactly, did Gotland have that was any where like the equivalent of just one of these factories?
Gotland's biggest manufacturing industry (a cement factory) currently employs 235 people. About the size of the crew of Kelly.
The North of England state invented the railway, and the whole area around the Tyne was covered with them, so it's fairly high infra. Nevertheless, there are also mountains in the area, so it's not maximum infra, nor a very high population overall, and not suitable to build many new military factories 1939-45 from scratch. Most of it's contribution came from converting the shipyards from building merchant ships to the Royal Navy. Reyrolle's probably wound down production, with many men joining the forces (my uncle joined the RAF and served in the Middle East). The men who worked in the shipyards were in protected employment, and couldn't be conscripted. These increased production significantly during the war.
The change by the devs feels right to me. It's gamey to increase the infra in Northern England, which basically means building more roads and railways in the rural (and mountainous) parts of the state, just so you can build new factories. Placing a basic cap on the state of six (as an urban region) seems to be roughly correct.
It means the UK should be already close to it's max potential factories within much of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1936. It can be increased by bonuses, things like the industrial research to have concentrated industry. Or you build new factories in the colonies.
And as the picture of Hebburn shows, in this part of the UK and many others, industry was very close together. It was vulnerable to bombing, and helps to explain the extra research in radar and investment in building Chain Home and the Dowding System to intercept bombers, that we discussed in the last DD.
Bombing of the area did take place, and the crew of a German bomber who crashed near my grandmother's home were buried in the local cemetery, where she was buried many years later. They were given full military honours.
But bombing was intermittent and never caused much damage to the local factories. Helped, of course, because the area was around the limits of the range of medium bombers. So in HOI4 terms, it was in an air region with less than 100% coverage from planes based on the continent or Norway. The lack of strategic bombers and long-range escorts in the Luftwaffe, and the air defences, was a big factor in allowing Swan Hunter for instance to churn out about a dozen LCTs in 1943 to mid-1944 ready for Normandy, without any interruptions to production.
While Gotland was tending their pigs and cows
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potski, I'm asking for a single factory for Gotland, ranking it as a pastoral region. No need to go full chavusism mode.
Edit: I also looked up your town, which is is part of a metropolian area including over 1 million people today. Your comparison seems rather dishonest.
Edit: I also looked up your town, which is is part of a metropolian area including over 1 million people today. Your comparison seems rather dishonest.
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The point he's making is that the region that includes the two and all the industry he mentioned, is only allowed six factory slots, and that Gotland's capacity would be far, far (far!) less than that. In fact, Sweden's entire shipbuilding capacity didn't match that regions' during the period in question. It's not chauvinism (Sweden did very well for what it had, both in terms of industry and technology), it's just the hard numbers. It's the same reason the US should be able to build far more than anyone else in the game - not because I'm a US fanboy, but because during the actual conflict, and at a decidedly lower level of overall mobilisation than most other major combatants, the US' industrial production was insanely high.
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And his home town has in turn a ridiculously large factory output when compared to e.g London or New York. It's due to the fact that the bar seem to be set rather low for a region to have industrial capacity at all, while the cap in turn is rather low as well. And do you honestly not think Gotland ranks a pastoral region? It's after all the most relevant question.
Also, in 1939 - 1940 alone Sweden built 6 DD and 4 submarines, which obviously is little compared to the great powers as a whole but I would not make statements about some northern English town outproducing an entire country without some fact checking.
Edit: Although I admit that "10 ships per year" could mean that they actually did, but it's a rather vague statement.
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