It's not though. His hopes of being mistaken were probably not in this way but technically if you endure the production efficiency penalty you can still produce replacements and operate what you have plus what's in your equipment stockpile.
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Hearts of Iron IV - 33rd Development Diary - Supply
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Basically what this new oil for production system tells us is that if you capture enough factories you can replace tanks and planes losses and you need no oil to run them.
So... if they are not careful a smart player might realize it is more efficient to capture more industry based areas than go for isolated oil rich areas since industry is all you need to fuel your front. Oil just means you build the stuff a bit faster and oil are most likely not the only resource that counts so even if you have no oil it will then at most lower the efficiency with a modest amount as long as you have the other material available.
With ships this is even worse...
The insanely large stockpiling in HoI3 was pretty unbalanced as well but this is even worse in my opinion.... they could have run with the current supply system and still had a consumable oil resource that impacted the efficiency of ships, planes and vehicles be restricting their speed or time usage. This would have given a way better representation of the impact of Oil and the importance of its immediate strategic value.
So... if they are not careful a smart player might realize it is more efficient to capture more industry based areas than go for isolated oil rich areas since industry is all you need to fuel your front. Oil just means you build the stuff a bit faster and oil are most likely not the only resource that counts so even if you have no oil it will then at most lower the efficiency with a modest amount as long as you have the other material available.
With ships this is even worse...
The insanely large stockpiling in HoI3 was pretty unbalanced as well but this is even worse in my opinion.... they could have run with the current supply system and still had a consumable oil resource that impacted the efficiency of ships, planes and vehicles be restricting their speed or time usage. This would have given a way better representation of the impact of Oil and the importance of its immediate strategic value.
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HOI has to be complex and realistic. Now it´s abstract and very generic.
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I think it would be cheaper to bring fuel to the tank instead of buying a new one. In tearms of realism ant complexity HOI 4 has lost a lot of it´s charm compared to HOI 3
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I love the new system. As far as I understand it, it will be fast to see the bottlenecks and quick to see how much you can support in certain areas. I can't wait to see it all in action.
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Humm I try hard but I can't see why some of you guys are so afraid of the new supply system :
Bomb resources or factories and get a global and over time strategic effect on supply production
Bomb infra and get a local and over time tactical effect on supply delivery
Equipment stockpile is an abstraction of everything an unit need, including supply and fuel.
Bomb resources or factories and get a global and over time strategic effect on supply production
Bomb infra and get a local and over time tactical effect on supply delivery
Equipment stockpile is an abstraction of everything an unit need, including supply and fuel.
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So Haruna can sortie all day, every day, even though there's no fuel? Well, gosh, what a bummer, no one told the Japanese!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Kure_(July_1945)
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That was a panzer division being equipped. And included AT and Art.
That is a lot of abstraction that required some creative thinking. People with less creativity will simply think equipment is what the developers say it is: equipment and that there are no supplies or fuel in-game therefore everyone is living of the land.
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Which, when you boil it down, is the thing that we don't like. Not only don't we like it but we think is is so ridiculous that it is a deal breaker for us. That kind of abstraction belongs in a Total War game, not in HOI. Again, its not that we don't understand it is that we don't agree. For us it leads to absurd results that don't belong is what is supposed to be a premier simulation of WWII.
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If this is true, then for the love of all that is holy devs please take your time, change the supply system and get it right. Release it a month, hell even two months after you were going to. We won't mind. After all, you said it'll be released when it's done...
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In my opinion it is even worse than the quote you referred to. Not just will ships, planes and tanks never refuel you are still going to be able to build stuff, just with an efficiency penalty. How big it is I don't know but it is hardly going to be more than 50% penalty since most stuff require more than one resource, that is my guess.
So worst case scenario is a 50% efficiency drop if you have no fuel which seems far fetched with synthetic oil being a thing so the efficiency penalty from Oil are most likely being much less severe than that I presume. This is only speculation but most likely not far of the mark. Oil is not going ti be all that important in the game anymore if this is the case.
In my opinion it will almost feel like a slightly more complicated game than civilization. In fact in Civilization you can at least not build more units than you have resources they depend on.
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Ok, I see what you mean, you want to have the choice to bomb ammo or fuel or bandage to impact fire power or movement or attrition. It's a very deep level but why not. I will wait until game launch to see if such an abstraction level is an immersion breaker. I'm a doubting Thomas
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Once again forum goes into whining mode.
For me i see it like that when factory produces tank in also means that it produces spare parts and supplies worth of one tank (ammo, parts, fuel food). So even if its writen that there are X tanks transported it can mean that it transport supplies worth of one tank. After all there exist attarition that can be recognized as parts and oil being used in game.
If you look at it that way then you will stop having problems with it. In case of land and air.
For me i see it like that when factory produces tank in also means that it produces spare parts and supplies worth of one tank (ammo, parts, fuel food). So even if its writen that there are X tanks transported it can mean that it transport supplies worth of one tank. After all there exist attarition that can be recognized as parts and oil being used in game.
If you look at it that way then you will stop having problems with it. In case of land and air.
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So you build Musashi to refuel Yamato? Or Unryuu to refuel Hiryuu? Or Iowa to refuel South Carolina?
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This is really legitimate complaining and I bet allot of virtual credits they will change this (in DLC or expansion) or the game goes down the death spiral as more of an arcade game than a true WW2 simulator.
There are some interesting changes but this one just take the price for really screwing with game balance for simplicity sake. I think you should take some time to read the actual complaint and the reasoning why this is a bad call.
There are also not just blind ranting, there have been many good suggestion for how you could deal with this given the current supply system. It is not beyond repair in my opinion.
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I don't any problem with that, except that this abstraction bypasses the different inputs of rates of consumption. If Oil+Equipment+Food had the same inputs, everything would be fantastic, but they don't.
Even then, I could get behind a "ponderation system" that took into account stationary consume for one side and movement and engagements as parameters. But those parameters, those inputs, are completely outside of the picture. We get a bad abstraction when we could get a good one, because the Devs failed to merge two systems.
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It is baseless whining because people that whine here never played HOI4 that means they have no base to on with build opinion about how it will work in game and act with other elements. Right now it wont change so it's completely worthless whining without any weight (experience in HOI4) to prove anything.
Second i was writing about land and air and you start writing to me about Yamato it only means that you can't understand what's being written.
First everyone should stop whining and wait until game will go out then play, and after that start to ad their own 3 cents on this subject.
Second i was writing about land and air and you start writing to me about Yamato it only means that you can't understand what's being written.
First everyone should stop whining and wait until game will go out then play, and after that start to ad their own 3 cents on this subject.
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You don't need to play he game to form a well educated guess on the impact from all the information given to us up to this point in time.
I have been able to understand game mechanics pretty well in the past from just reading forums and wikis to know exactly what to expect once I played the game.
You are giving peoples intelligence way to less credit... and most critique do contain some reservation on further unknown elements. But it is quite easy to picture the impact of this system in the "feel" it will give the player during game play.
I have been able to understand game mechanics pretty well in the past from just reading forums and wikis to know exactly what to expect once I played the game.
You are giving peoples intelligence way to less credit... and most critique do contain some reservation on further unknown elements. But it is quite easy to picture the impact of this system in the "feel" it will give the player during game play.
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