Hearts of Iron IV - 33rd Development Diary - Supply

Hearts of Iron IV - 33rd Development Diary - Supply

  • Pre order now!

    Paradox Development Studio brings you the sequel to one of the most popular strategy games ever made! Crusader Kings III is soon upon us and you can pre order it today!


    Releasing September 1st 2020
Status
Not open for further replies.

podcat

Oberkommando HOI4
Super Moderator
12 Badges
Jul 23, 2007
12.589
30.119
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Paradox Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
Another Friday, another diary! Today we will be talking about something a lot of you have been asking about for a long time: The Supply System. This is going to be a big one!

The HOI3 supply system had a lot of problems. It was hard to understand how it worked, and it was hard to know what to do to solve supply problems for the player because it was usually due to missing something some time ago. We even made a separate Arcade Mode for supply which of course nobody used (what self respecting player would pick something called "Arcade Mode"?).

After a couple of glasses of 16yo Lagavulin and some deep thoughts the following problems needed to be solved:
  • It must at any point be possible to look at an area and see how many troops can work there without problems. Also for naval invasions.
  • It must be possible to see exactly what the bottleneck in your supplies are and give the player possible actions to fix this that are clear.
  • The supply system itself must not have long complicated flow networks where cause and effect are hidden by time.
  • The supply system must not collapse if a capital is taken which was a big problem in HOI3 and both unrealistic and not fun.
  • Holding out in cities should be possible even when cut off from the rest of your force.
  • Resistance must be able to hurt your supply lines without being a Whac-A-Mole problem.
  • Supply issues need to get gradually worse for a unit rather than feel binary like in HOI3.

Scary list? Sure is, but I think we managed to solve all of it. So how does it work then?
  • The world is separated up in Supply Areas, made up of provinces. They are purely for gameplay and generally follow terrain types and such.
  • Each area can tell you at a glance exactly how many divisions it can support and how much you are taking up.
  • If you hover your mouse over an area it will show you an arrow tracing the path supply takes, and indicate what is limiting it. Areas also have quick buttons for helping solve problems right there (improve naval base level or infrastructure etc).
  • The game will show alerts from areas with supply problems to notify player (super useful when you are, say, Britain and spread over many theaters).



The supply level of an area are decided by the following things:
  • A local scripted value. Think of it as base infrastructure that can't really be destroyed (will be basically 0 in mountains and deserts and pretty high in densely populated Europe).
  • Any big cities/victory points will increase it. So holding out in these is possible.
  • Local resistance movement activity in occupied territory disrupting things for you (we'll have a separate diary on these guys)
  • Incoming supplies from neighbor area. We trace back to capital, or if capital is cut off the next best area. The supply you get is limited by the lowest infrastructure on your route (also possibly sabotaged by resistance), including your own infrastructure level. So for a player what you need to care about is what the bottleneck is, because that is what is going to affect how troops on the front fare. There is also some guaranteed spillover from neighbors to soften the transitions between bad and good areas (simulating that even if decent railway lines stop at a point it's feasible to transport some distance with trucks or horses etc).
  • If we are cut off from home area, say fighting in Africa, or on an island, supply will travel overseas using convoys and be limited by the size of the ports receiving it. So making sure convoys are not sunk and bases are able to sustain you is important before doing any overseas activities.
  • Put transport planes on a mission to drop supplies. Useful for cut off troops (this is still WIP so can't show it yet).
  • It also worth noting that supply areas will change size if they are being fought over so actual levels will depend on how much you control.



When a unit finds itself out of supply it has a short period of time where they can live off their own supplies, after that their situation will gradually get worse up to about 30 days when things get very bad. Being out of supply makes you lose organization, move slower, not fight as effectively and take a lot more attrition. Veteran players of HOI know that the best way to beat the enemy is to cut off their supply, encircle them and then destroy them, and this remains true in HOI4.

So how can a player improve their supply situation?
You start by finding the bottleneck.
  • Improve infrastructure to allow more supply into the area.
  • If linked by sea, make sure to escort convoys and protect them from raiders.
  • Build bigger naval bases to allow better throughput.
  • Deal with local resistance.
  • Research and attach Supply Companies to your division templates to help them manage.
  • Airdrop supplies.
  • Simply withdraw some troops from an area.

So, what is supply exactly?
In HOI3 supplies was something you produced and stockpiled, then fed into a flow network towards units. In HOI4 the only thing you can stockpile is equipment so this is what you do. Moving, training, fighting, being in bad weather or in particular in bad supply means equipment breaks down and this equipment needs to be shipped. The worse a supply situation is the longer it will take to send equipment and the more attrition you will take. So instead of a flow network we have a system being limited by bottlenecks.

So this means that the abstract "supply" of HOI3 is now instead requests for specific equipment instead which fits a lot better in with HOI4's equipment and production focus. This also means that there is no separate fuel need as such in the game, this instead is included in production of replacement equipment which need Oil (all tanks, trucks etc). Before everyone chokes on their friday beer give this some thought. Being able to stockpile fuel generally leads to the same problems as all other kinds of stockpiling when it comes to hindsight, so by wrapping it into the actual production of equipment requests to units (also nobody would request a tank without diesel to run it, and if they did it wouldn't really be usable as a tank) everything clicks into place and player doesn't have to micro manage all movement, airplane rebasing etc to try to avoid fuel waste and focus on making sure they have access to a strategic Oil resource and replacement equipment and a clear path for units to be supplied.



(p.s dont look too much at the numbers in all these screenshots, we havent really finished balancing supply yet)

Next diary we will take a look at civil wars and coups!
 
Last edited:

HeilLoki

Major
86 Badges
Nov 30, 2010
779
1.389
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Thank you so much for finally giving us a supply Diary!
 
Last edited:

biddybam

Private
60 Badges
May 9, 2012
11
65
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
Because supply is based on specific equipment resupply, does this mean very low attrition divisions require less supply?

Also, if the above is true, is the fact that you are having supply "bottlenecks" causing your units to lose organization, or is the fact that their equipment stockpile not at max causing them to lose org.
 
  • 1
Reactions: Hoosiers12

podcat

Oberkommando HOI4
Super Moderator
12 Badges
Jul 23, 2007
12.589
30.119
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Paradox Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
Very good improvment:)

Question: are aircrafts now transported by the logistical network?
No, a bit too complicated to manage, but their bases ties into the supply system so you need supply to run missions from the area

That dog on the bottom right in the last picture, lolwhat
its our developer debug mode dog that barks when we get errors in our error log

This is probably one of the best changes I've seen from 3 to 4.

+1
Thanks!
 

paranoidsteve

Major
20 Badges
Oct 2, 2009
526
784
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
interesting, I guess it will take some getting used to.

I am not sure I can get my head around building a tank in 1940 and it is fueled until 1948 while constantly driving non-stop.....and you know some of us will do just this.... simply because we can and it gives something to moan about.

Its a massive buff to the Japanese navy :confused:
 

SonGoku

Complain Goku™
13 Badges
Mar 1, 2011
674
427
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II
Yes thank the devs for supply mechanics at last! On the whole, I think this will be a lot better than HoI3/HoI2. Looking forward to owning the game more and more everyday guys!
Actually the system in HOI II wasn't that bad after all. At least it wasn't the "why what why"-system we had to endure in HoI III.
 

Hans_Schnitzel

Colonel
77 Badges
Mar 4, 2013
950
1.460
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • King Arthur II
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Stellaris
  • War of the Roses
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Magicka 2
  • Victoria 2
So, I assume that the "supply need" of units will now be a number that represents how much of those "supply limit" they take up?

Example: West Germany has a supply limit of 120. A standard infantry division displays a supply consumption of "2" and this means that as soon as I move the into the West Germany supply zone it'll display that 2/120 has been taken up. Is that correct?
 
  • 1
Reactions: panzerzombie

novapaddy

War-Father
97 Badges
Aug 26, 2009
8.903
1.304
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Galactic Assault
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Lead and Gold
  • Legio
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • East India Company
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
When I think back at the trouble I had trying to learn how to play HOI3 (it was my first Paradox game), I got so stressed out, that even today, when I go to play HOi3, I cannot. It is like all those bad memories come flooding back, and I feel stressed again.

Reading your DD Podcat, looks like you are doing a GOOD JOB! You seem to have thought of everything. Well Done!
 

Johuotar

Costa Potentean Ultranationalist
74 Badges
Jun 12, 2012
397
52
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
Good to see you have clear ideas on how to improve from hoi3. Cant wait to see the system in action.
 
  • 2
Reactions: Indraugnir and KimSand
Status
Not open for further replies.