Hearts of Iron IV - 29th Development Diary - 16th of October 2015**Read OP before posting**

[grisamentum]

I would reckon that a country that's been a democracy for at least 100 years (independent from Gran Colombia since 1830) is a "mature democracy".

Not without interruption, though. There were plenty of coups and rigged elections along the way, and special problems that "mature" democracies didn't have. Someone could make the argument that many South American governments in this era were plutocracies, and not properly accountable representative governments.

So that might explain why South American doesn't follow the theory as closely as the rest of the world did.

 

[Emmanuel_M]

Not without interruption, though. There were plenty of coups and rigged elections along the way, and special problems that "mature" democracies didn't have. Someone could make the argument that many South American governments in this era were plutocracies, and not properly accountable representative governments.

So that might explain why South American doesn't follow the theory as closely as the rest of the world did.

Here is a better explanation :

Removed - Secret Master

 

[Secret Master]

Personal attacks against other posters is not acceptable.

Furthermore, let's stay on topic and not discuss the wider implications of various political theories.

 

[Gamer_1745]

• Comintern gets much cheaper wargoals for puppeting people.

not really during the 10 year span of hearts of iron though which is what we are modelling

Can you site one example of this outside of the End of WWII. It would seem all the wars Stalin Started none of them were for puppeting. Yes, after defeating Hitler after Hitler attacked the Soviet Union Stalin puppeted many nations. Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland & the forced occupation of part Romania were pure conquests by Stalin. Hitler was the big puppeter in WWII (Slovakia, Croatia, Denmark, Vichy France, Italian Social Republic & others).

 

[Jestem]

democracies must be allowed to declare war against each other. this is a simple historical truth.

 

[paranoidsteve]

Y'all just mad Canada won't be able to conquer the United States anymore

...I know I'm sad too

Sure you can, just become a commie or axis state first.

This, please at least add this. If HoI 2 had a "Democracies can start war" option, so can HoI 4.

They already can start wars, just not against each other.

 

[safe-keeper]

That stuff is about the national focus tree and whether or not the nations are railroaded in their focus choices.

Er, yes, that's what I said.

 

[Secret Master]

Wargoals also has an impact when it comes to Peace Conferences where they give advantages to whoever claimed them, but more on that in a future diary on peace.

A faction is a group of nations that can call on each other when fighting a war, and if a nation is overrun while in a faction, they are not eliminated entirely until the faction leader is forced to a peace-conference.

Peace conferences? Force countries into a peace conference?

Am I detecting a possibility for world hegemony without invading the British Isles?

"We will fight you on the beaches. We will never surrender!"

"Umm, yeah, your merchant marine is wasted, half your Dominions are fascist puppets or occupied, and the Japanese have seized half of India."

"So, who is catering the peace conference?"

"We thought we'd have Subway cater and save some money."

"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be...."

:sigh:

"Fine, we'll have the conference catered by Wendy's and have models from Bravissimo serve the food."

"That's better. I'll tell the Queen we're coming to terms."

 

[CocoBZ]

They already can start wars, just not against each other.

I know that. I meant it in a "if you can remove the limiters in previous games you'd better have the possibility to do it here too" kind of way.

 

[imvdm]

Can there be an alliance between factions ? Like if the nazi and Japan each had their own faction, or like in real life when the allies team up with the Soviet.

 

[podcat]

Y'all just mad Canada won't be able to conquer the United States anymore

...I know I'm sad too

But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought HoI4 was to be more open to ahistorical, sandboxy purposes. In which case, shouldn't there be an option in there somewhere to turn that particular feature off, to allow someone to go through their fantasy of bringing democracy the good old fashioned way, one bullet at a time... (our democracy, not their democracy )

Doesn`t the "democracies can`t declare war" rule simply forces the player to switch to other type of govenment?

Sandbox doesnt mean the game has to be a complete fairytale. Stuff needs to be plausible and based in the real world or there is no immersion.

A democratic canada declaring war on the usa doesnt make a lot of sense in 1936. A Canada where fascists have gained power after an election? Still incredibly unlikely, but plausible enough in the HOI time period.

Can there be an alliance between factions ? Like if the nazi and Japan each had their own faction, or like in real life when the allies team up with the Soviet.

There are special mechanics that come into play with mutual enemies in these cases, so yes 2 fascist factions or allies+comintern can cooperate at war, but its not something in place when at peace where only being in the same faction guarantees stable relationships.

 

[Magnus Imperator Rex]

Sandbox doesnt mean the game has to be a complete fairytale. Stuff needs to be plausible and based in the real world or there is no immersion.

A democratic canada declaring war on the usa doesnt make a lot of sense in 1936. A Canada where fascists have gained power after an election? Still incredibly unlikely, but plausible enough in the HOI time period.

While I agree with you in that sandbox should not equal fantasy, a democracy not being able to fight a war against another democracy also belongs to the realm of fantasy. It is not like democracies were factions per se.

I can cite one example off the top of my head of democracies fighting each other during the WW2 timeframe:

Peru-Ecuador War of 1941

President Manuel Prado vs President Carlos Arroyo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_general_election,_1939

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian_presidential_election,_1940

Fun fact: peruvian President Manuel Prado greatest accomplishment during his presidency was making Peru the first country in South America to break off diplomatic relationships with the Axis Powers in 1942 and siding with the U.S.

 

[Walshicus]

Sandbox doesnt mean the game has to be a complete fairytale. Stuff needs to be plausible and based in the real world or there is no immersion.

A democratic canada declaring war on the usa doesnt make a lot of sense in 1936. A Canada where fascists have gained power after an election? Still incredibly unlikely, but plausible enough in the HOI time period.

Shouldn't the punishment for going ahistorical and declaring war on the US as Canada be a swift defeat? I mean I understand making that scenario highly unlikely if not impossible for an AI Canada, but why completely restrict it for Human players? Especially given there are a number of examples of democracies actually declaring war or just invading each other in the time period.

I guess I just feel (and I'm sure many others do) that Paradox games are at their best when they allow player freedom to act, and at their worst when they outright prevent action.

 

[that-guy-is-it]

What about "Neutral" nations that were democracies? I WANT A MEXICO AMERICAS CONQUEST DAMMIT! AND WITH EXTRA FREEDOM! Would I have to switch to fascist/communist?

 

[Magnus Imperator Rex]

What about "Neutral" nations that where democracies? I WANT A MEXICO AMERICAS CONQUEST DAMMIT! AND WITH EXTRA FREEDOM! Would I have to switch to fascist/communist?

Exactly! I also want to build an american empire using a plutocratic democracy, from Mexico to the Patagonia damn it

 

[varsovie]

So in HOI4 the only thing that stands between me and my Estonian world conquest is a bunch of political power points. Interesting...

 

[FieldMedic]

Don't worry Podcat I was mostly joking

 

[Te. Kenzo]

If you want to conquer your neighbors, simply build up the party of war and win elections

 

[that-guy-is-it]

What about faction ideals when you create a faction? Since I heard they could be created, my first thought was uniting Latin America under a faction ("Latin American Defense Force")and trying to beat the Axis myself (using sheer numbers to compensate for lack of industry). I would thus like that faction to behave like the Allies. Conversely, if I say, made a faction as China and added Asian and Middle Eastern Nations to conquer European Colonies, I would like them to be expansionist, like the Axis ("Greater Asia Anti Imperialist Alliance"). Is that possible?

 

[Thure]

Sandbox doesnt mean the game has to be a complete fairytale. Stuff needs to be plausible and based in the real world or there is no immersion.

A democratic canada declaring war on the usa doesnt make a lot of sense in 1936. A Canada where fascists have gained power after an election? Still incredibly unlikely, but plausible enough in the HOI time period.

Why don't make it based on cores? Even democratic counties did fight for cores. Like Peru in Ecuador. Or India and Pakistan. Palestine and Israel etc. If you allow democracies to declare war for cores this wouldn't lead to many ahistorical outcomes because Canada has no cores on the USA in HoI4, right?