Hearts of Iron IV - 29th Development Diary - 16th of October 2015**Read OP before posting**

[Irishjim]

Ah! Glorious France!

 

[grisamentum]

I just think democracies should be able to war each other if they have cores.

Peru-Ecuador war...

Yeah, Peru-Ecuador War is debatable on a few grounds (whether Ecuador counts as a mature democracy, for example), but more importantly, I think you've identified a better exception, that also explains the First Kashmir War.

When there is a bona fide territorial dispute between two democracies, war should be possible. However, there just aren't that many of these in HOI4, I don't think. Are there other examples you can think of?

 

[Nekodom]

Most formulations of the democratic peace theory exclude "new" democracies (typically those less than 3 years old). In 1947 both India and Pakistan were less 3 years old so the First Kashmir War doesn't really disprove the theory.

Not that there aren't other sufficient counter-examples, of course. Just maybe not from 1936 to 1947, podcat is correct.

I'm just pointing out that in the general time period of the 30s and 40s there were a host of wars fought by democracies against other democracies such as the Leticia Incident and the Chaco War.

 

[Had a dad]

Game mechanic discussions are fine, political ranting will continue to be deleted and infracted.

 

[Cardus]

Hold on a second... are you telling me that the engine isn't suitable for a game we have been waiting for, for 2 YEARS!

So why bother then? Why not just get hoi3 add it to darkest hour and AOD and make the definitive ww2 game for once and for all ?

I mean LEARN from 10 years of making and playing ww2 games and deliver to the players the game we all want to play.

So is this going to be a huge disappointment?

My very personal opinion is that the engine is designed to follow the market (e.g. 3D map and other features that old players care zero). Paradox is right to follow that path because is not a charity and Podcat is doing a very good job because, for example, you can see in the map all the variables (like terrain, weather, etc.) that before you couldn't but he cannot do miracles. So in this game you can forget what you were used to have in HOI 3 (e.g. a "real" map, a command structure, NATO counters, etc.) but you can find other things. At the end the decision whether you will buy or not the game is as usual a balance between what you get and what you loose. I said that my preference is to have a fork because I fear that HOI4 (despite all the efforts) will resemble too much to EU or CK which have nothing to share with operational war-games.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

It all sounds brill. Can you force-dismantle a faction without eliminating the faction leader? Will countries leave a faction if the leader goes through a major political shift, or starts acting in a way that puts its members in jeopardy?

 

[loup99]

Maybe some kind of "Annex only cores" could be added, so you need also less warscore.

Hopefully the take province action will at least be moddable. I assume the democracy thing will also be, but it will probably require some extra balancing if one mods it.

 

[FieldMedic]

Y'all just mad Canada won't be able to conquer the United States anymore

...I know I'm sad too

 

[bcoop1701]

The globe in the upper right corner is new since DD 16. I assume since that picture is taken at the beginning of the game that the 0% represents World Tension. The bottom of the globe appears to be glowing like a coal, does the globe slowly catch on fire as tension rises?

 

[grisamentum]

I'm just pointing out that in the general time period of the 30s and 40s there were a host of wars fought by democracies against other democracies such as the Leticia Incident and the Chaco War.

So if we extend the timeframe a little like you say, we can get additional wars to consider. Interestingly they are still all in South America. Maybe South America democracies should just have a special exemption. I don't know enough about South American history to comment unfortunately.

 

[keynes2.0]

I am glad that democracies will not declare war on each other. Better to make the general rule work and then put in any exceptions as needed then try to make the general rule fit the exceptions and ruin the big cases. No war between Albion and Gaul please.

 

[Nekodom]

So if we extend the timeframe a little like you say, we can get additional wars to consider. Interestingly they are still all in South America. Maybe South America democracies should just have a special exemption. I don't know enough about South American history to comment unfortunately.

It's just that other democracies (US, UK, etc.) didn't really have a need for additional territory and resources, unlike South American democracies. You also have to account for the differing worldviews and opinions found in different societies. Plus a country doesn't have to be fascist or communist in order for nationalistic rivalry to be present.

 

[RVallant]

Not up in arms over this, as I completely understand the 10 year period being favourable to the no-inter-democratic war stance. I also get that some focuses might allow us to bypass that.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought HoI4 was to be more open to ahistorical, sandboxy purposes. In which case, shouldn't there be an option in there somewhere to turn that particular feature off, to allow someone to go through their fantasy of bringing democracy the good old fashioned way, one bullet at a time... (our democracy, not their democracy )

To be honest though, I don't see it as a massive issue - It probably wouldn't affect me, but that was the first thought I had.

 

[Nekodom]

(whether Ecuador counts as a mature democracy, for example),

I would reckon that a country that's been a democracy for at least 100 years (independent from Gran Colombia since 1830) is a "mature democracy".

 

[CocoBZ]

In which case, shouldn't there be an option in there somewhere to turn that particular feature off, to allow someone to go through their fantasy of bringing democracy the good old fashioned way, one bullet at a time... (our democracy, not their democracy )

This, please at least add this. If HoI 2 had a "Democracies can start war" option, so can HoI 4.

 

[safe-keeper]

I don't feel that's one of the things that should be an option, to be honest. Better to download a mod if it's launched that way and you really dislike it that much .

Thinking about it, though, there is supposedly already going to be an option to play a game where the AI tries to emulate history, or one in which the AI can take more ahistorical routes. Perhaps the "democracy vs democracy" thing could be enabled in the latter mode? Not a fan of that, either, to be honest, but it would be a more reasonable compromise to me.

Then again, if nations can change governments relatively easily, all you have to do is go from democracy to facist/communist, and all of a sudden you can declare wars as you please .

 

[CocoBZ]

Thinking about it, though, there is supposedly already going to be an option to play a game where the AI tries to emulate history, or one in which the AI can take more ahistorical routes.

That stuff is about the national focus tree and whether or not the nations are railroaded in their focus choices.

 

[Abadon777]

I don't feel that's one of the things that should be an option, to be honest. Better to download a mod if it's launched that way and you really dislike it that much .

Now you should ask is it moddable ?

 

[mursolini]

Doesn`t the "democracies can`t declare war" rule simply forces the player to switch to other type of govenment?

 

[Had a dad]

Now you should ask is it moddable ?

probably. Based on how HOI3 and EU4 files are, and what is moddable there