Hearts of Iron IV - 24th Development Diary - 11th of September 2015

[Emre Yigit]

I like the feature. I think it's a good way to gauge the communities reaction to certain opinions and viewpoints. It's really no different than the thumbs up/down on many other forums and comment sections like youtube,reddit etc. It would be nice to have the option of explaining why you agree/disagree without making a new post.

If it were just related to opinions and viewpoints, I'd agree. And these are the Holy Paradox Forums, where people are anal retentive to a degree not seen in the barbarous fields of reddit.

But people disagree with statements like: "I was born in 1967, I have brown hair, I am loved by everyone on the forum, I'm sitting in front of my computer, and I'm a genius". Now which part is "disagreed" with?

And then there are disagreements with "I was born in 1967".

If I've made an error of fact I'd like to be informed what the correct fact is.

Otherwise, not helpful, IMHO.

 

[paranoidsteve]

If it were just related to opinions and viewpoints, I'd agree. And these are the Holy Paradox Forums, where people are anal retentive to a degree not seen in the barbarous fields of reddit.

But people disagree with statements like: "I was born in 1967, I have brown hair, I am loved by everyone on the forum, I'm sitting in front of my computer, and I'm a genius". Now which part is "disagreed" with?

And then there are disagreements with "I was born in 1967".

If I've made an error of fact I'd like to be informed what the correct fact is.

Otherwise, not helpful, IMHO.

We know that you have hazel hair and we all hate you

 

[grandad1982]

The record on number of disagrees belongs to a troll, actually. Don't remember the actual thread, but he made 1 OP and ended with a couple hundred disagrees in the space of a couple of hours. never saw the blighter again

Sounds familiar. Was it something to do with the balkans?

 

[Ouragan2]

Hi. Great job !!!! Very good changes, but...

Why there is no more coal? There was many countries produce this very importent resourses, and now it is useless? Plants need this resources, without plants there is no energy to factoris, without factoris there is no production. No matter You have steel, rubber, oil etc, without energy factory can't manufacture it to final product. Silesia now is a worthless region.

There are plenty of important things that everyone had and thus aren't modeled in the game. Importance doesn't mean good game mechanics.

That explanation is correct, if the name of this game will be Civilisation V. It HoL IV, so little historc reality is important. Poland, China, Silesia is worth nothing, if there is no industry, no coal, no oil, no important rare materials. There is no reason to attack this desert country... What is good in mechanic with no coal?

 

[ringhloth]

That explanation is correct, if the name of this game will be Civilisation V. It HoL IV, so little historc reality is important. Poland, China, Silesia is worth nothing, if there is no industry, no coal, no oil, no important rare materials. There is no reason to attack this desert country... What is good in mechanic with no coal?

Anyone who I could conceive of having a conflict over Silesia had plenty of energy in HoI3 (in fact, almost everyone had plenty of energy). So there's still no reason to take Silesia, if the only possible reason is coal.

 

[FarEast]

At last what kind of play should I do in the case of Germany?
Germany has no oil. The import qty from Romania, then after the outbreak of war Germany oil will be empty soon,I think so.

 

[podcat]

So instead of making a functional economy in the game, we'd rather remove the feature that can be exploited. That's not only logically fallacioous, it's ill conceived. What's the game to do? Have a better economy system. It's a pretty straight answer to a straight question. The economy system would be a lot of work, but it's completely wrong to assume it would be for nothing.

- HOI4 is a strategic war game not an economic simulator
- We could spend 1 year working on better economy in it instead of making it better for the reasons people like it (war). Compared to the other stuff we could do with the game I think it would be a complete misuse of resources and waste of time
- Better detailed simulation doesnt really create a better model of something. in fact its usually the opposite that a more abstracted system can better simulate something.

 

[Darkath]

- HOI4 is a strategic war game not an economic simulator
- We could spend 1 year working on better economy in it instead of making it better for the reasons people like it (war). Compared to the other stuff we could do with the game I think it would be a complete misuse of resources and waste of time
- Better detailed simulation doesnt really create a better model of something. in fact its usually the opposite that a more abstracted system can better simulate something.

Like victoria 2, very detailed simulation, but half of the time broken (those damn RGOs and broke artisans, not to mention worldwide cement shortages)

 

[LostinSpice]

- HOI4 is a strategic war game not an economic simulator
- We could spend 1 year working on better economy in it instead of making it better for the reasons people like it (war). Compared to the other stuff we could do with the game I think it would be a complete misuse of resources and waste of time
- Better detailed simulation doesnt really create a better model of something. in fact its usually the opposite that a more abstracted system can better simulate something.

HOI3 had a detailed trade system but it became so distracting once the game got into full flow. HOI4 is such an improvement on the interface which does seem to have brushed over certain aspects of trade and resources. However, we are looking at perceived shortfalls in isolation and I'm certain that once we get to play HOI4 in all it's glory all will became obvious.

 

[Emre Yigit]

We could spend 1 year working on better economy in it instead of making it better for the reasons people like it (war). Compared to the other stuff we could do with the game I think it would be a complete misuse of resources and waste of time.

No doubt HOI is a wargame with added bits, but I think you might be surprised about the reasons people like games.

I've been a forum member for 14 years and I don't actually ever remember being polled as to why I buy a game. Must be my luck, missing the market research.

Like victoria 2, very detailed simulation, but half of the time broken (those damn RGOs and broke artisans, not to mention worldwide cement shortages)

There are good simulations and bad simulations, of course. And while a good simulation is not necessarily more complex, a simple simulation is not necessarily good.


Oh, and "respectfully disagree"?

 

[Darkath]

Issues happens when your simulation depends on an AI playing with game mechanics designed for humans. Which was the case for HOI3 and Victoria

 

[podcat]

No doubt HOI is a wargame with added bits, but I think you might be surprised about the reasons people like games.

I've been a forum member for 14 years and I don't actually ever remember being polled as to why I buy a game. Must be my luck, missing the market research.

Thats true, and who knows, a complex economic simulation in HOI4 could perhaps be great, but HOI2 and HOI3 didnt have deep economic simulations so its not really one of the reasons people play hearts of iron games. Not saying it couldnt be a good game, but its not what HOI is about and would be a different game (I think an economic focused game in the interwar years would be very interesting, but again, its not really HOI).

Oh, and "respectfully disagree"?

yeah whoever changed the name of that button is a genius ;D

 

[Darkath]

An economic/political game focused on the interwar years could be like fate of the world. You are in charge of a super beefed up Société des Nations and you need to prevent ww2

 

[Secret Master]

An economic/political game focused on the interwar years could be like fate of the world. You are in charge of a super beefed up Société des Nations and you need to prevent ww2

Why would I prevent WWII? Couldn't I deliberately start it and try to gain stuff?

 

[Darkath]

Why would I prevent WWII? Couldn't I deliberately start it and try to gain stuff?

Well in fate of the world (which is about climate change and doomsday scenarii) you can also basically commit mass genocide and basically try to f*** up the world as much as possible too

 

[Beagá]

The disagree button is toxic, anyway. Should be removed. But at least now it feels a bit less like "I troll U".

 

[Ruthlesssamuria]

This means War! I don't like the "New Trade System!" Kiss principle: "Keep it simple stupid!" If it is not broke Don't Fix it! I liked the old trade system but it could have used some twinking/improvements!

 

[Cardus]

it only stops if you have NO resources. if you are producing airplanes and that airplane needs rubber and aluminium and you have 0 rubber but 100% of the needed aluminium that line will run at 50% efficiency. if you had no aluminium at all either it wouldnt run. Most lines require some basic stuff like aluminium or steel which you will have at some quantity.

Just to understand: if you have no rubber and you need that for cables and tires how airplanes can be produced (even at slower pace)?

 

[tommylotto]

My understanding is that a short temporary lack of a resource will cause production to slow down -- abstracting the country making due with alternatives or whatever can be scrounged up. A prolonged lack of a resource will progressive decrease production until it finally grounds to a halt. Thus, a stockpile is kinda sort of abstracted.

 

[blue_yonder]

The disagree button is toxic, anyway. Should be removed. But at least now it feels a bit less like "I troll U".

I disagree.
The forum has been a far healthier place since the voting system was introduced. Think back a year, to when the devs virtually gave up posting because of the likes of modestus ranting incessantly about counters. All that changed when the downvote was introduced, but now it has been made nauseating by compelling everyone to show a ‘respect’ they do not actually feel.