Hearts of Iron IV - 22nd Development Diary - 28th of August 2015

[LordOfWar16]

Why would I choose to have support Artillery/AT companies rather than full blown Artillery/AT battalions? (and vice versa)

On AT does a single support company of AT give it's max penetration value to the entire division? (If no other unit has higher) At which point you get a cheap penetration stat and would never want a full blown AT battalion.

as a support unit they are considered towed and thus match the speed of the division. If you add them as a fightig unit they most likely will slow down the divison depending on its speed.

 

[varsovie]

NATO COUNTERS! YEAH!!!

I can feel that the logistic and maintenance coy will have some "gamey" usages, being nearly never worth it* or being necessary pre-war (if you know the date of opening hostilities or have time to convert back AKA Germany,USA) and for high tech stacks (mec/arm).

*AKA not even saving it's own cost in the course of the war.

 

[henzington]

Is there a limit to the number of divisions we can have designed?

 

[podcat]

Is there a limit to the number of divisions we can have designed?

nope

 

[Bellicosity]

Can we make divisions be auto named?

I make Template A and all units created with Template A are called 1st/2nd/3rd.../55th Anti-Air Division
I then make Template B and all units created with Template B are called 1st/2nd/3rd.../55th Marine Division

 

[InnocentIII]

I like the idea of piling on lifesavers for nations with limited MP but good industry (oh, Canada!).

 

[Uliono]

Podcat, what is the incentive to have artillery, AA, AT etc. in as support battalions? It seems to me that to free up space for the more specialised support battalions that its a no brainer to shunt all the artillery etc. into the 'combat battalion' slots as soon as you have enough experience to undertake that redesign. Am I missing something?

Edit: second question, is it possible to redesignate existing divisions. I.e. I have an 'Infantry Division' already on the map, I design an entirely new 'Light Infantry Division' template. Can I redesignate the infantry division on the map as light infantry in line with the new template?

 

[Denkt]

Support artillery brigades size needs to depend on how large the division is so it always matter and can compete with the support brigades who give % modifiers (they should also get more expansive for larger divisions).

second question, is it possible to redesignate existing divisions. I.e. I have an 'Infantry Division' already on the map, I design an entirely new 'Light Infantry Division' template. Can I redesignate the infantry division on the map as light infantry in line with the new template?

Yes

 

[Peekee]

Podcat, what is the incentive to have artillery, AA, AT etc. in as support battalions? It seems to me that to free up space for the more specialised support battalions that its a no brainer to shunt all the artillery etc. into the 'combat battalion' slots as soon as you have enough experience to undertake that redesign. Am I missing something?

Edit: second question, is it possible to redesignate existing divisions. I.e. I have an 'Infantry Division' already on the map, I design an entirely new 'Light Infantry Division' template. Can I redesignate the infantry division on the map as light infantry in line with the new template?

That was my thought. The only reasons I can think of for choosing support companies of items that are duplicated in combat battaltions are :

1. For elite units as they should magically match the terrain modifiers ( + airedrop/ jump-ability ) (not sure if confirmed)
2. Cheapness on mobile units (auto matches speed)
3. Magic high penetration for low cost on AT (Need to confirm how penetration is going to work, I hope it is not just a simple max from all battalions/ support companies)
4. Depending on techs doctrines and situation you may not care for some of the other modifiers. E.g. don't care about manpower then why have a hospital. Fighting a defensive battle without supply issues don't worry about logistics. In those cases some cheap extra firepower might be better that the "specialized" support companies.

 

[Agilent]

1. How's fixing the Air Force UI going? When can we expect so see a DD on that?

2. I love everything about Hearts of Iron 4, I'm just disappointed it won't come out this year. Maybe there is a chance for a Christmas release???

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

How is changing unit creation from 5 basic brigades to being able to choose the components of each brigade "dumbed down"? I've been wishing for this battalion type Division creation since HoI2, thinking the brigade only system didn't allow much flexibility

They even wrote (/irony) to make it obvious that they are kidding.

Safe-keeper knows that HoI4 isn't actually being dumbed down, but actually gets depth added to it. I think they are just trying to mock the people who basically say "omfg Hoi4 is dumbed down for the casuls".

 

[Rummy]

Great, now it's even more streamlined and dumbed down .

(/Irony)

Yeah I'm very nervous about this developer diary. On one hand we have the option to build specialist units like we did in HoI3, which was basically the only thing which I found more interesting over HoI2 as I was able to create Garrison type divisions, fort busting/siege divisions, river crossing units, and then some good old fashioned armoured units with either extra self propelled artillery with awesome firepower, or fast racing units with engineers for river crossings, and half the fun was getting those specialised units to the right spots to utilise their specialties. I abhor the thought of having nearly every division being the same, I mean really how boring is that, and it will quickly become a mindless who has the most numbers game.

Though then we're told that we can indeed still create unique divisions, though at a severe cost which will make it virtually non-beneficial...

What I don't understand though is why? I know that the reason for the templates is to make it easier for players to know the strength of their formations at a glance and easier/quicker to build armies. But what if I don't want that? What if building and then utilising specialist units is half the fun to us? After all who wouldn't quickly get bored of using the same one infantry division, one armoured division, one motorised division to do everything...

Got a impending siege coming up somewhere, or have a fort to assault? Got to cross a few rivers quickly? Got to encircle the enemies units quickly? Got to bring up extra firepower to squeeze into a small front area? Want to launch a naval invasion? Need a unit only for garrison duties. --- Don't worry, just use your one standard infantry division to do everything! How exciting is that??

If you're going to make the number of templates severely limited please only do it for multiplayer games, but leave it so that in single player we can still play the game how we want, and if that involves slightly more micromanagement for the sake of variety and keeping the game interesting and letting a player have an attachment to his units and vastly increasing the replay value/ability of the game, then so be it.

 

[Peekee]

Yeah I'm very nervous about this developer diary. On one hand we have the option to build specialist units like we did in HoI3, which was basically the only thing which I found more interesting over HoI2 as I was able to create Garrison type divisions, fort busting/siege divisions, river crossing units, and then some good old fashioned armoured units with either extra self propelled artillery with awesome firepower, or fast racing units with engineers for river crossings, and half the fun was getting those specialised units to the right spots to utilise their specialties. I abhor the thought of having nearly every division being the same, I mean really how boring is that, and it will quickly become a mindless who has the most numbers game.

Though then we're told that we can indeed still create unique divisions, though at a severe cost which will make it virtually non-beneficial...

What I don't understand though is why? I know that the reason for the templates is to make it easier for players to know the strength of their formations at a glance and easier/quicker to build armies. But what if I don't want that? What if building and then utilising specialist units is half the fun to us? After all who wouldn't quickly get bored of using the same one infantry division, one armoured division, one motorised division to do everything...

Got a impending siege coming up somewhere, or have a fort to assault? Got to cross a few rivers quickly? Got to encircle the enemies units quickly? Got to bring up extra firepower to squeeze into a small front area? Want to launch a naval invasion? Need a unit only for garrison duties. --- Don't worry, just use your one standard infantry division to do everything! How exciting is that??

If you're going to make the number of templates severely limited please only do it for multiplayer games, but leave it so that in single player we can still play the game how we want, and if that involves slightly more micromanagement for the sake of variety and keeping the game interesting and letting a player have an attachment to his units and vastly increasing the replay value/ability of the game, then so be it.

Depends on how much the costs is. We know you can :

1. Copy / Rename templates for Free
2. Make simple changes to a template for a fairly low cost.
3. Total number of templates is unlimited

I imagine that I might have a basic infantry template that was almost never used. Then use that to create some both main-line templates with basic additions, plus some spcialized options as well. Similarly for other things.

Having some cost there is good. IRL you did not get to throw any old units together and expect them to work without putting in some effort first. The cost goes in some way to show that sort of effort.

 

[tommylotto]

I've just had a look at the makeup of SS Division Reich in 1941. Assuming that all Art, AT & AA guns are assigned to combat brigades, we have the following support elements:

Recon: 6 companies
Engineer: 6 companies
Logistics: 6 company equivalents
Signals: 5 company equivalents
Maintenance: 4 company equivalents
Medical: 3 company equivalents
Military Police: 1 platoon

With only 1 MP platoon, it has to get dropped, but that still leaves 6 types of support companies, all with 3-6 actual companies and only 5 slots. The smallest group is the medical, but the Germans had greater success in returning wounded troops to service than many other nations, so it doesn't seem right to drop it. Next smallest is maintenance, but the Germans were better than most at recovering damaged equipment on the battlefield so it doesn't seem right to drop it either. Then were getting into signals, but good signals were integral to the Germans coordinated method of waging war so we can't drop it. Next are the engineers and recon with 6 companies each. Are we seriously going to drop the recon ability from German motorised divisions and given the desperate defence demonstrated by the Germans over the 41/42 winter that pretty much held the line after the initial Soviet attacks ran out of steam, are we going to drop the engineers? I don't think so. Limiting the support column to 5 slots might make for interesting choices for players, but its going to short change the major powers and prove to be maddeningly frustrating for players who are also interested in the history.

For anyone interested, my take on the division's combat brigades is as follows:
Bde 1: 3 x Mot Inf Bns, 2 x Art Bns (1 of regimental infantry guns and 1 of light field howitzers assigned from the Artillery Regiment)
Bde 2: as Bde 1
Bde 3: 3 x Mot Inf Bns, 1 x Art Bn (lt field howitzers), 1 x AT Bn (regimental AT companies)
Bde 4: 2 x Mot Inf Bns (the motorcycle and recon battalions with 10 companies in total after assigning 1 recon company to the support group)
Bde 5: 2 x Mot Inf Bns (engineer & field replacement battalions with 8 companies after assigning 1 engineer company to the support group), 1 x Art Bn (the heavy field howitzers), 1 x AT Bn, 1 x AA Bn

I understand that some poorer countries only fielded companies of engineers or recon, but the major powers tended to field whole battalions in their divisions. Accordingly I'd really like to see engineers and recon as combat battalions that can be assigned to brigades, and still provide the bonus for having them in the division. Just limit a division to getting the bonus once in case players want to stack 2 engineers or 2 recon battalions in the one division.

The solution is to have varying sizes of support elements. You could have a medical company and a medical battalion and you would add whichever one you could afford. Same with all the other support elements, have both a company and battalion sized unit. Hell, go crazy and offer a regiment sized support unit too.

 

[Rummy]

They even wrote (/irony) to make it obvious that they are kidding.

Safe-keeper knows that HoI4 isn't actually being dumbed down, but actually gets depth added to it. I think they are just trying to mock the people who basically say "omfg Hoi4 is dumbed down for the casuls".

Yeah it looks great that we can specialise divisions, however it has been continually repeated in every diary/post so far which mentions division creation, that the number of templates that we can have will be "severely" limited because of the "experience/research cost" and hinted to be like a whopping two or maybe a third different template type (especially in the first few war years). So they're giving us the ability to specialise a division, but only letting us have two or three different infantry division types for the entire German Wehrmacht...

I just hope the "experience/research cost" of designing a new division template is not as severe as they're making it sound like it will be. And if they do, make it only severe for Multiplayer games if they're worried about micromanagement and people playing at slow speeds, but for Single player games, that the cost is very low/minimal

 

[Lilje]

NATO counters!

I think i just came a little.

 

[FieldMedic]

These Dev Diaries make Friday's even better! Which I didn't think was possible. I'm really loving this system and I love the variety of support units I can already see designing Military Police divisions and Anti-Air and Anti-Tank specialist divisions.

Question. Maybe this was covered already but will we see a return of specialist Infantry, like Marines, Mountain, etc?

 

[Denkt]

Specialist infantry are in.

 

[LostinSpice]

I'd say paratroopers would need logistics (as they normally end up cut off) and engineers (useful to have extra help to dig in and hold until relieved). The other three would be ART/ AT and AA as they should except multiple attacks.

 

[FieldMedic]

Wow Happy Birthday Johan Hope you have a wonderful day!