Hearts of Iron IV - 20th Development Diary - 14th of August 2015

Yakdast

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I wonder what will Swedish focus tree looks like.
 
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Praetori

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Yes, there probably will be a template if there were Guards Divs in 1936 that were different from standard Inf Divs, even if just for a bit of added flavour.

Though I think IRL a Guards Div was not materially different, it was just a name given to units that had performed well.

It was mostly the honor and distinction of what earned the unit the status that mattered but they did get more juicy stuff as well (although not entirely uniform).
The Regiments got bigger with added MG Bats and more SMGs while the HQs got more resources and the division as a whole grew a bit with more artillery, AT etc.
The most important part however was that they got a larger share of the manpower reserve with allegedly better recruits and a larger trickle-back from previously injured or sick returning for duty.

In in-game terms this would be like making a new "guards rifle" template and assign it additional battalions and more ART ant AT while increasing the priority for equipment and reinforcements. Then pick a unit which you believe has distinguished itself and has enough experience and assign it the new template. Renaming it to "Guards" and pick a suitable Icon to go with it.
 
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I wonder what will Swedish focus tree looks like.

the first national focus is "Sweden is not overpowered!" which grants sweden 0 neutrality, cores on finland, norway and denmark and mobilises the moose population into the swedish army as equipment which will supply the swedish "motorised" divisions as replacements for trucks, saving sweden a lot of IC from having to build and maintain proper trucks
 
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Cardus

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"Install democracy" was a war goal in HOI3, so I imagine it will be in HOI 4 as well. Sure, the Allies are moslty a colonial empire, but I don't see them doing things like making Germany a US puppet, or making Italy a British colony. That's pretty immersion-breaking.
Right but at the end of the day Soviets imposed communist governments in their "area" as well as the Allies did with center right democracies. In those countries where communists (in the Allies area) were part of the government there was a change (for example in Italy communists were kicked out "democratically" until the party was disbanded in 1991 and in Greece with a military putsch). So, at the end, if DDR was a puppet the same should be considered Italy, Greece, etc.
Maybe the concept of puppet is broken and it should be replaced by the concept of "satellite" quite well explained by Edward Luttwak.
 
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Right but at the end of the day Soviets imposed communist governments in their "area" as well as the Allies did with center right democracies. In those countries where communists (in the Allies area) were part of the government there was a change (for example in Italy communists were kicked out "democratically" until the party was disbanded in 1991 and in Greece with a military putsch). So, at the end, if DDR was a puppet the same should be considered Italy, Greece, etc.
Maybe the concept of puppet is broken and it should be replaced by the concept of "satellite" quite well explained by Edward Luttwak.
Then just have "install democracy" install a democracy that's friendly to the Allies. Give them a relations boost or something. Problem solved.
 

ringhloth

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Most of the "puppets" set up by the allies are best represented by a collaboration government occupation type. They lasted until the end of the war, and then were transferred relatively peacefully afterwards. Japan is probably the biggest outlier, and even that is still a question of time.
 
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Cardus

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Then just have "install democracy" install a democracy that's friendly to the Allies. Give them a relations boost or something. Problem solved.
Then for Soviets just have "install communism" that's friend to Soviet Union. The point is that both sides: Allies and Soviets should be treated similarly (apart from the fact that some western countries had colonies).

Most of the "puppets" set up by the allies are best represented by a collaboration government occupation type. They lasted until the end of the war, and then were transferred relatively peacefully afterwards. Japan is probably the biggest outlier, and even that is still a question of time.
The same did the Soviets: They transferred peacefully the control to national governments.

In 1947, the United States formulated the Truman Doctrine, and began to actively support a series of authoritarian governments in Greece, Turkey, and Iran in order to ensure that these states did not fall under Soviet influence.[1] With American and British aid, the civil war ended with the military defeat of the communists in 1949. The Communist Party of Greece (KKE) was outlawed, and many Communists either fled the country or faced persecution.[citation needed] The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Greek military began to work closely, especially after Greece joined the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in 1952. This included notable CIA officers Gust Avrakotos and Clair George. Avrakotos maintained a close relationship with the colonels who would figure in the later coup.[2]
 
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Secret Master

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Just to understand: what were Italy, Japan and Germany after the defeat independent free nations?

Occupied for years on end, far longer than the time frame of the game.

The FRG was not formed until 1949. It's outside the time frame of the game. Before that, West Germany was occupied by the Allies. (East Germany is another kettle of fish, but we're just talking about democracies here.)

Japan was an occupied state until 1952 when the US and Japan signed the Treaty of San Francisco. That is outside the time frame of the game.

The Repubblica Sociale Italiana is clearly a puppet of Germany, but the Kingdom of Italy voluntarily joined the Allies. You could argue that Italy becomes an Allied puppet, but a formal peace treaty with Italy did not go into effect until September of 1947, which is practically outside the timeframe of the game (three months to go). Either the Kingdom of Italy is acting according to its own devices (and WWII has become an Italian Civil War), or Italy is an Axis state occupied by the Allies (large portions of the country are under occupation by foreign powers). Either way, I wouldn't call Italy a puppet of the Allies.

Right but at the end of the day Soviets imposed communist governments in their "area" as well as the Allies did with center right democracies. In those countries where communists (in the Allies area) were part of the government there was a change (for example in Italy communists were kicked out "democratically" until the party was disbanded in 1991 and in Greece with a military putsch). So, at the end, if DDR was a puppet the same should be considered Italy, Greece, etc.
Maybe the concept of puppet is broken and it should be replaced by the concept of "satellite" quite well explained by Edward Luttwak.

Perhaps, but I think it's better to just call it what it was called legally in Japan and Germany on the Allied side: an occupation.
 
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Cardus

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Most of the "puppets" set up by the allies are best represented by a collaboration government occupation type. They lasted until the end of the war, and then were transferred relatively peacefully afterwards. Japan is probably the biggest outlier, and even that is still a question of time.
Occupied for years on end, far longer than the time frame of the game.

The FRG was not formed until 1949. It's outside the time frame of the game. Before that, West Germany was occupied by the Allies. (East Germany is another kettle of fish, but we're just talking about democracies here.)

Japan was an occupied state until 1952 when the US and Japan signed the Treaty of San Francisco. That is outside the time frame of the game.

The Repubblica Sociale Italiana is clearly a puppet of Germany, but the Kingdom of Italy voluntarily joined the Allies. You could argue that Italy becomes an Allied puppet, but a formal peace treaty with Italy did not go into effect until September of 1947, which is practically outside the timeframe of the game (three months to go). Either the Kingdom of Italy is acting according to its own devices (and WWII has become an Italian Civil War), or Italy is an Axis state occupied by the Allies (large portions of the country are under occupation by foreign powers). Either way, I wouldn't call Italy a puppet of the Allies. .

The point is not exactly what happened but what could have happened within or not the game time frame. For example the game (or a mod) could expand the limit to 1948 and that would include Italy and could include as well FRG if the Allies had decided to end the occupation earlier.

Perhaps, but I think it's better to just call it what it was called legally in Japan and Germany on the Allied side: an occupation.

The discussion started from this question: why Soviets can puppet and Allies cannot? Philippines was a puppet whilst I think that Germany, Italy and Japan were not. My suggestion was to consider them as "clientes" (Latin) as Luttwack explained that this is the preferred strategy for the USA.

Last but not least Poland, Hungary, DDR, etc. in my opinion can't be considered puppets of Soviet Union but they should be considered as satellite states (as well as Italy, Germany, Japan, etc.)
 
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It was mostly the honor and distinction of what earned the unit the status that mattered but they did get more juicy stuff as well (although not entirely uniform).
The Regiments got bigger with added MG Bats and more SMGs while the HQs got more resources and the division as a whole grew a bit with more artillery, AT etc.
The most important part however was that they got a larger share of the manpower reserve with allegedly better recruits and a larger trickle-back from previously injured or sick returning for duty.

In in-game terms this would be like making a new "guards rifle" template and assign it additional battalions and more ART ant AT while increasing the priority for equipment and reinforcements. Then pick a unit which you believe has distinguished itself and has enough experience and assign it the new template. Renaming it to "Guards" and pick a suitable Icon to go with it.

That is pretty much spot on. Pulling from Page 258 from the manual for Gary Grigsby's War in the East:

"A common misconception of those not students of the Eastern Front is that the guards units were the Soviet equivalent of the Waffen SS. Rather than being a separate branch of the military specially trained, equipped and organized as was the case with the SS, "Guards" was an honorific awarded ordinary units that had distinguished themselves in combat. With the exception of the guards rifle division which for much of the War had an extra submachine gun battalion and a couple extra batteries of artillery, guards units only differed from non-guards units by a higher priority for new equipment (sometimes) and the assignment of the most dangerous missions (almost always). Winning the guards honorific did enhance a unit's esprit de corps which translated into a higher level of performance but the guards were not "elite" in the same sense that German units like Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler were elite."
 
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Nicolas I

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the first national focus is "Sweden is not overpowered!" which grants sweden 0 neutrality, cores on finland, norway and denmark and mobilises the moose population into the swedish army as equipment which will supply the swedish "motorised" divisions as replacements for trucks, saving sweden a lot of IC from having to build and maintain proper trucks

And will there be an Ikea national focus? Sell cheap do-it-yourself military equipment to other countries and wait for it to crumble a few years later or be unusable because some pieces are lacking.
 
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Kotos

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"As you can see on the screenshot below, we have truly dumbed down the game"-Johan, begrudgingly accepting a necessary and long overdue facelift. TBT, main reason I'm getting HOI4 is it's easier to jump into. On paper, I should love all these kinds of games but the interface has always irritated me, even after "getting it". Cool Entry though, I like how it wrapped up what you can and can't do at the end!
 
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BlackICE allowed you to change the size of different types of units; infantry, artillery, special forces and so on. It was pretty neat. Smaller units would take less space (so for example, you could fit more para units in transport planes), whereas bigger units of course had more stopping power, while also using more manpower, fuel and supplies.

In HOI4, maybe this could be part of the core stats of every nation. Or doctrine trees. As in, one or more superior firepower doctrines may increase the size of your artillery units?

"As you can see on the screenshot below, we have truly dumbed down the game"-Johan
Hehe, I chuckle every time I hear someone say that HOI4 is "dumbed down" :) . I don't blame the devs for being a bit frustrated by that.
 

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The two green arrows and the exclamation mark symbol (see the Collectivist propaganda and Positive heroism), what is its meaning? Does it symbolize the mutual exclusivity of these two focuses?
 
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The two green arrows and the exclamation mark symbol (see the Collectivist propaganda and Positive heroism), what is its meaning? Does it symbolize the mutual exclusivity of these two focuses?
yes
 
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