Hearts of Iron IV - 19th Development Diary - 3rd of July 2015

[Victor Cortez]

I don't mind the possibility for any country to become fascist, I actually like it, as long as it's properly made.
The UK, under the right circumstances, could have become fascist (after a succesful German inasion for example). On its own? Of course not.

 

[Axe99]

The best tank will be the best tank that YOU CHOOSE TO BUILD, in other words, the fact that you research the Panther, doesn't mean that all your newly produced tanks become Panthers. You will still be producing the Pz IV. Also the variant can only become as good as the next generation model, so the Pz IV (variant max) will be exactly the same as a Panther "stock", and no need to throw your away your production efficiency for that.

Aye, but what if you're producing Pz IV (max variant) and Panthers (no variant), and also receiving a lend-lease medium tank from Italy that's actually better than either of your medium models (granted, this particular example is fairly hypothetical!)? In that case, your stock will include three models of 'high level' tank, and which one is the one the game decides is the best? As for the variant, the last I remember reading was that the top level variant of the previous tech level could be slightly better than the base model of the next tech level (which would be fairly historical for aircraft, I'm not so sure for tanks) - if it's now the case that the lower level tech model can't ever be better than the next tech level that'd at least make it just a case of the game choosing between locally produced and lend-lease models. It'll still need a way to decide, one way or other. Not a big issue mind, am just curious .

 

[Will Steel]

Implemented in HOI3.
HOI4 will most likely have it also.

HoI3 can simulate civil wars other than the Spanish and Chinese ones?

Espionage in that game only has the ability to do full coups and not rebellions or civil wars or breaking a nation into two depending on ideologies.

 

[Denkt]

It would be rather fun to see things like US civil war and see how all the other countries will react on the possible power vacuum and the possibility to gain a powerful ally.

 

[Ibn_Solmyr]

From what I can see, I'm not sure that we could continue to produce some truck-motorized divisions once we get the half-track technology/doctrine. Can you clarify that plz ?

No, the way they are visualized is that more and more small factories start appearing spread over the state the higher your level is on the state.

Does that mean that facories identification and localization is definitely out of the game ? So no hope of a "bombing Sheinfurt mission to destroy the ball-bearing which is pretty vital for the ennemy" ?

#3 not right now, but may happen in the future at some point

Pleeeeaaase, do this for us, eventually. Please please. (About captured ennemy equipment).

It would be rather fun to see things like US civil war and see how all the other countries will react on the possible power vacuum and the possibility to gain a powerful ally.

Or to learn them how to keep fully respected

 

[Ceaberus]

Anyone notice the lack of the I have this many nukes on the HUD.

 

[Secret Master]

When considering the implications of a fascist Britain in HOI4, folks need to keep a couple of things in mind:

1) Flag changes for all countries, even the majors, means that puppeting powers gives an appropriate flag. This is a good thing.

2) In HOI3, the only country who could change flags was France and Spain, and even in those cases, it was because a whole new country was created out of thin air, not because the same country got a new flag. Now we can change flags whenever it would make sense. I shouldn't have to remind anyone how useful flag changes would be for Germany at the end of the war, Korea, China at the end of the war, and Italy.

3) Modders have been given a huge blessing. I can only begin to see the modding possibilities of such a mechanic in an HOI game.

4) A lifting of the "faction leaders cannot be couped" mechanic would also be a good thing. While I will be the first to argue that the historical government of Britain wasn't about to become fascist (or even close to it), I'm also holding out hope (based on DDs) that someone can run the British government into a trainwreck that would allow other political possibilities. It would be nice that even faction leaders would have the threat of a coup hanging over their heads, making decisions about political party ORG and popularity more meaningful. "Prime Minister, we can't do X. It will give the BUF an opening to demand seats in the Cabinet! And from there, we will face the recipe for a coup, because Oswald Mosely wants to be Defense Minister!" Keep in mind that some players may want to run amok as an ahistorically fascist UK, but other players may want to avoid becoming facsist, and find themselves having to make some hard choices.

Hard choices = fun in a grand strategy game

 

[Ibn_Solmyr]

While I will be the first to argue that the historical government of Britain wasn't about to become fascist (or even close to it)

The government no, for sure, but the king, yes.

 

[Will Steel]

Yeah sure, I like an alternate-history game. But not a what-if UK turned fascist, thats just plain stupid and has nothing to do with alternate history, just fantasy. UFOs and aliens is just as likely, UK should never turn fascist.

Not really, it was and should be possible.

If for example Stalin spent a lot of time, effort and resources, there would come a day when a communist dictatorship would be ruling Britain. That is not stupid, that is real. No nation is invincible to certain aspects, and hard-blocking the game so that one nation cannot be something, completely ruins the game. As I said, this game is not going to be a history book, and it is completely possible for Britain to be ruled by Nazis or Soviet Union becoming a democracy, by some kind of event.

Bringing UFOs and aliens, again, just makes your point completely out of topic. Since when did this become a discussion of science fiction? This is not about alternate history, this is about historical plausibility where things could have happened and played out in other ways than they did.

 

[Dresdenboy]

How are the years in the tech trees related to actual research efforts? Are these years like the earliest point in time when a tech could be researched?

 

[Victor Cortez]

How are the years in the tech trees related to actual research efforts? Are these years like the earliest point in time when a tech could be researched?

As far as I know, it's the year when you stop having a malus.
Say, for example, you want to research a 42 tech in 41, you can but it will take longer than if you researched it in 42.
So, if X 42 tech takes 100 days, in 41 it will take 150 and in 40 200 (random numbers ofc)

 

[Ibn_Solmyr]

As far as I know, it's the year when you stop having a malus.
Say, for example, you want to research a 42 tech in 41, you can but it will take longer than if you researched it in 42.
So, if X 42 tech takes 100 days, in 41 it will take 150 and in 40 200 (random numbers ofc)

Yup, and this, by the way, makes me think it's a bit ridiculous to have an abrupt limit, this change should be smoothed IMO.

 

[Zhetone]

The issue with saying "such-and-such event is not plausible/was not likely" is that you can't have quantifiable probabilities for events happening in history, because even if you ignore the idea of free will, you don't know what chance there would be of people making different decisions than they would have, or events lining up differently.
Combine that with the butterfly effect and you end up with craziness being plausible.

 

[Axe99]

Not really, it was and should be possible.

If for example Stalin spent a lot of time, effort and resources, there would come a day when a communist dictatorship would be ruling Britain. That is not stupid, that is real. No nation is invincible to certain aspects, and hard-blocking the game so that one nation cannot be something, completely ruins the game. As I said, this game is not going to be a history book, and it is completely possible for Britain to be ruled by Nazis or Soviet Union becoming a democracy, by some kind of event.

I know what you're saying here, but in the timeframe of the game, this was highly unlikely. Even a Soviet invasion of India through Afghanistan would have been a challenging undertaking if the UK wasn't committed elsewhere. I'm not in favour of hard-blocking either, but if I as Germany can just put a couple of spies on the UK and trip them over to fascist in 1938 (or as the USSR, and trip 'em to communist), or even 1948, then that's really, really implausible unless something else has happened (Secret Master's example is a good one - if a nation is in trouble and has been run into the ground, a la Weimar Republic, it's another thing altogether - so if the UK was up to its eyeballs in debt, had 1000% inflation and 30% unemployment for any period of time, then the chance of a coup is far higher). It's just important to remember that the only time in history that major nations were couped was when they'd been through the wringer and back - think Weimar Germany, Tsarist Russia in 1917, China after the second world war. I'm unaware of any time in history when a major (even a big one like the US) was able to execute regime change on another major as well - it's generally all internal stuff (that majors tinker on the sidelines of, rather than drive - so if things are about to get screwy anyway, the the USSR might be able to give the British Communists enough to prevail in the coming struggle, but things need to be bad enough that there is a coming struggle in the first place).

 

[Victor Cortez]

Yup, and this, by the way, makes me think it's a bit ridiculous to have an abrupt limit, this change should be smoothed IMO.

Not sure about the limit being abrupt. In EU4 it's year-based (any year gives you a 10% malus if I remember correctly), so in HOI4 could be month-based.

 

[misterbean]

I know what you're saying here, but in the timeframe of the game, this was highly unlikely. Even a Soviet invasion of India through Afghanistan would have been a challenging undertaking if the UK wasn't committed elsewhere. I'm not in favour of hard-blocking either, but if I as Germany can just put a couple of spies on the UK and trip them over to fascist in 1938 (or as the USSR, and trip 'em to communist), or even 1948, then that's really, really implausible unless something else has happened (Secret Master's example is a good one - if a nation is in trouble and has been run into the ground, a la Weimar Republic, it's another thing altogether - so if the UK was up to its eyeballs in debt, had 1000% inflation and 30% unemployment for any period of time, then the chance of a coup is far higher). It's just important to remember that the only time in history that major nations were couped was when they'd been through the wringer and back - think Weimar Germany, Tsarist Russia in 1917, China after the second world war. I'm unaware of any time in history when a major (even a big one like the US) was able to execute regime change on another major as well - it's generally all internal stuff (that majors tinker on the sidelines of, rather than drive - so if things are about to get screwy anyway, the the USSR might be able to give the British Communists enough to prevail in the coming struggle, but things need to be bad enough that there is a coming struggle in the first place).

Maybe the political power in the game will be able to simulate a nation in such trouble that they can't make ends meet anymore.

 

[paranoidsteve]

No DD for six weeks its been 2 days and i am already suffering from withdrawal symptoms.

 

[safe-keeper]

How are the years in the tech trees related to actual research efforts? Are these years like the earliest point in time when a tech could be researched?

As others have said, in most/all? Paradox games research progresses more slowly when you're researching stuff with a later year. So you can research them for an early lead in those fields, but in the same time you could research possibly several other techs.

It's kinda like in Civ where you have a choice between researching techs that take 5 or so turns, and researching techs that take 12 turns. It's worth it some times, and at other times it's more of a waste.

Yup, and this, by the way, makes me think it's a bit ridiculous to have an abrupt limit, this change should be smoothed IMO.

It kinda is in HOI3. Two years ahead gives a penalty, and then there's an increased malus for every year you're ahead. So researching a tech that's five years or more ahead gives a massive penalty.

But yeah, it could be month-based instead of year-based. I too always find these abrupt cut-offs gamey.

 

[Krafty]

The chances should be non-existent in my opinion.

Mods. We're going to have to mod this game like crazy to do away with some of the silly decisions of the devs.

 

[EU3NOOB]

The thing of note here is that Britain has the Fascist flag from Victoria 2...

Victoria 3 confirmed!