Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour Devdiary 6: Lend lease & Strategic warfare

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Darkrenown

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Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No! It’s a new dev diary for Their Finest Hour! Today I’ll be talking about Lend Lease (the feature so good we posted it on Facebook twice!) and the Strategic warfare screen.
Let’s start with Lend Lease. For those who don’t know, The Lend lease act is the popularly used name for a law the USA passed in 1941 to Lend or Lease war material to nations fighting the Axis powers. Technically, being lent meant the goods should be returned after the war, but as one senator commented, “War material is like chewing gum, you don’t want it back after someone else is done with it”, so it was effectively a gift. In game terms, this is done by spending some of your Industrial Capacity in the Lend Lease slider, and then you can share it out on a sub-screen between nations who have requested LL aid from you, which grants the target nation bonus IC:
lend_lease.jpg

The nation giving out the LL pays the resource cost for the IC given, the receiver gets bonus IC added to their total which does not cost them resources to run. Some of you may wonder why we have modelled this as granting IC rather than, say, shipping out a bunch of Sherman tanks. Well, partly it’s to make it more flexible when receiving Lend Lease – You get to build what you want, not what another player/AI chooses to lend you- but mostly it’s because a lot of Lend Lease aid was not things you can build directly in HoI3. Things like locomotives, trucks, rations, uniforms were shipped out in great numbers, and this allowed the receivers to focus their industry on building their own tanks, guns, and other equipment themselves.
Any nation may give out LL, but they are limited by Neutrality: It needs to be below 60 to give any LL, and the percentage of your total IC you can share is also capped by your Neutrality. The actual mechanic works like trading resources, if you share capitals on the same continent then no convoys are needed, but if not the receiver must ship the goods themselves. We assume multiple routes are used for such important convoys, so 50% of the LL IC is always received, but the other half depends on how much of the trade convoy is getting through.
Ok, enough Lend Lease, it’s time to talk about the Strategic Warfare Screen. The SWS is basically a summary of how your nation is doing in Strategic Warfare vs any/all(selectable) of your enemies, we do this by estimating the losses of each side in IC and comparing them by type. For example, your convoy raiders/subs losses compared to their convoys sunk:
Their Finest hour - DD6 - SWSnavy.png

Or the damage done to your by strategic bombing compared to the damage taken by your enemy’s bombers:
Their Finest hour - DD6 - SWSair.png

There’s also a comparison of land losses, shown in MP and IC:
Their Finest hour - DD6 - SWSland.png

Don’t worry about the scale on the graphs and the colours, we’re still working on this screen, so it will be easier to read when you get your hands on it.

Next week: Espionage!
 
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Chromos

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Nice!
 

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Really looking forward to this.

Does the Neutrality limit apply to both parties or just the 'sender'?

I like the fact that shipping losses will be listed in tonnes - but what is 1 ton? The graph shows an IC value that must plug in somewhere? The odd value shown 103.77 doesn't suggest that each convoy vessel equals a fixed tonnage value.

EDIT:
One more question. When making a comparison in the SWS screen. Can you select nations to compare country to country, faction to country and faction to faction?
 
Last edited:

aqvamare

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There is a mistake in your "Lend and Lease" Doctrine. Technical it was not ally only at the beginning. Even Axis country could buy american war weapons. But there was a rule, to prevent it. Every weapon you lend, has to transport on your own ships to your home country. Only country who could do this at the beginning was UK thanks to there naval embargo against germany. The change to free give away happens after german submarine warfare and the warentrance of the USA. Before, have you trader ships, you can get it.
 

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It looks great! I am a bit concerned though, about the 50 % always-gets-through rule; do you have any numbers from play testing on how much typically gets through when you leave the Atlantic War to the AI, or are you still too early in balancing?
 

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A question about bomber losses....what about flying bombs/rockets? We will ALWAYS lose them - how is the reflected in the statistics?
I assume that the "bomber losses" include everything that is flying on a strategic mission.
(If it is just every strategic bomber loss - in that case, what happens if tac bombers do a strategic mission and what happens if strategic bombers fly something other than a strategic bombing mission?)

And how would the drop a an atomic bomb be represented in those statistics?

AND HOW DO I SURVIVE THE NEXT THREE WEEKS OF WAITING? ( :) )
 

Beagá

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Niiiiiice... Statistics for the Statistics God! Hope that finally makes strategic bombing and U-boats worth it as Germany. After the last DD I hope you guys give some input on whether other gameplay stuff will be changed, above all CAG fixes that already were suggested and an option to allow air units to only go on missions on weathers of your choosing (so no pointless missions in storms).
 

podcat

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It looks great! I am a bit concerned though, about the 50 % always-gets-through rule; do you have any numbers from play testing on how much typically gets through when you leave the Atlantic War to the AI, or are you still too early in balancing?

We are still balancing this. The 50% might change too. The other day half of the convoys to UK were lost when we tested and german subs were on the prowl. but it is still a bit early to actually comment on numbers.


There was an earlier question about tonnage. We have some formulas for converting resources, ships and IC to tonnage which we will be tweaking too. The idea is to have numbers that correlate to historical shipping losses during the war so you can compare yourself (since these are usually written in tons). It is also great flavor compared to just showing in-game values.
 
Last edited:

Cybvep

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I'm worried about one thing. IRL tanks, aircraft, uniforms or any other stuff that was on the ships was lost when transports were sunk. However, in HOI3 resources or supplies are not lost, you only lose the convoys and it only becomes a problem when you have 0 convoys in reserve. If it works the same way for LL, then it will never really be feasible to disrupt the flow of LL stuff. Who cares if you lose 100 convoys? You can rebuild them using the shared IC AND build more stuff, too. Not to mention the fact that 50% of IC will get through, no matter how many convoys are lost, anyway. I think that this is potentially a serious balance problem. Therefore, the question is - will sinking convoys affect the amount of IC that gets through?

I love the new strategic warfare screen, but what exactly is 1 ton in-game?.
 
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Darkrenown

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There is a mistake in your "Lend and Lease" Doctrine. Technical it was not ally only at the beginning. Even Axis country could buy american war weapons. But there was a rule, to prevent it. Every weapon you lend, has to transport on your own ships to your home country. Only country who could do this at the beginning was UK thanks to there naval embargo against germany. The change to free give away happens after german submarine warfare and the warentrance of the USA. Before, have you trader ships, you can get it.

You're thinking of their earlier "Cash and carry" policy, Lend Lease was specifically only for "nations whose defense the President deems vital to the defense of the United States".

A question about bomber losses....what about flying bombs/rockets? We will ALWAYS lose them - how is the reflected in the statistics?
I assume that the "bomber losses" include everything that is flying on a strategic mission.
(If it is just every strategic bomber loss - in that case, what happens if tac bombers do a strategic mission and what happens if strategic bombers fly something other than a strategic bombing mission?)

And how would the drop a an atomic bomb be represented in those statistics?

Rockets count as losses for this,afterall, they are still IC that has been lost while bombing even if their loss was intended. Nukes just count as damage like any other bomb, since although they are a huge investment, you do not actually build the bombs themselves.
 

Cpack

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One question:

I'm fine with IC as lend-lease, but Australia or Canada f.e have no real armor tech (1918), so they really can't produce thoose "Shermans" on their own.
How is this handled, same for planes and ships
 

Corelli

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So the strategic warfare numbers are calculated for each country and not for an entire faction?

And does how well (or badly) you are doing with the strategic warfare do anything to you as far as positive/negative modifiers for production, morale or any other numbers?
 

kaspar42

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We are still balancing this. The 50% might change too. The other day half of the convoys to UK were lost when we tested and german subs were on the prowl. but it is still a bit early to actually comment on numbers.

Quite promising. Also, are the land losses only battle damage or does it also include units eliminated in encirclements?
 

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  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
One question:

I'm fine with IC as lend-lease, but Australia or Canada f.e have no real armor tech (1918), so they really can't produce thoose "Shermans" on their own.
How is this handled, same for planes and ships

Production licenses, although it's not something the AI does :/ There's nothing stopping these nations researching armour themselves though.

So the strategic warfare numbers are calculated for each country and not for an entire faction?

And does how well (or badly) you are doing with the strategic warfare do anything to you as far as positive/negative modifiers for production, morale or any other numbers?

Well it's always your country on one side, but you can select any combination of your enemies in the right hand side menu.

No new effects from this, it's info only, but your performance in SW has always affected National Unity.

Quite promising. Also, are the land losses only battle damage or does it also include units eliminated in encirclements?

Battle only, sadly, units that are destroyed via no retreat path aren't tracked. We might be adding this though
 
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