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Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour. DD 5. Landing craft and Invasions.

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Secret Master said:
Did I miss how long it takes to unload a unit? How long will it take to get up to 100% fighting capacity.

I ask because I have a fiendishly cunning plan:

Right now, covering all provinces on the coast is pointless because it dilutes your strength to no benefit. You can't SR enough assets to the location to throw the enemy back. But if it takes 12-24 hours for a unit to fully unload, putting a single crappy division in most/all coast provinces might make sense because the first few hours of combat are low intensity. With reduced attack strength while units unload, the division sitting on the beach isn't taking as much ORG damage, so it can buy more time for help to arrive.
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LOL, I was thinking along the same concept, the Rommel plan of coastal forts, a thin line to pin in place, and strong reinforecments close enough to the beach to smash the impertinent Allies back into the channel. It all depends on what changes, if any, are being added to naval movement and combat. Looking forward to that last DD.
 
there should be a loading and unloading delay based upon port size to keep 300,000 troops from
instantly loading ships and unloading in a level 1 port.

I like the LC tech so far but need to see more detail on how they operate first. This should keep
many smaller nations from 'doing the stupid' and trying to invade Europe alone.

Large transports (old liners) could land troops ashore (via smallboat/lifeboats) but it was terribly
slow and very hard to land sufficent supplies. Rafts slung on the ships sides were used to load
supply and small vehicles but again very, very slow.

This delay on loadind and unloading should be based upon port size and
force size loaded. a delay would force the player to make sure varied
sized forces arrive at the same time at the invasion site which is quite
real and tricky in real life!
 
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Invasion Tactics

Not to nit pick here, but wouldn't "Invasion Tactics" go better in the naval theory area rather than Escort Ship tab of the Reasearch window? I mean is it equipment to invade better that one would research or tactics/theory on how to pack/store ships better for more effective unloading/fighting. IE, if you keep all the spare ammo at the back of the ship it is going to come off last and you'd have to fend off the defenders with cunning insults and the machine gun noises I made when I was 5 years old.

However, it doesn't fit well into the current theory sections with some arguement to be made for Fleet in Being (thinking shore bombardment and such). IMO, it would need its own area in the Naval Theory tabs.

Otherwise, great DD, looking forward to the expansion.
 
'Combat Loading' and it was a real technique that need to be learned (and learned again)
as they found out on Guadalcanal and at the Tunis invasion. Until this 'tech is learned'
forces that land should operate at about 90% until a port is captured. Having the toilet
paper first off the boat and ammo last was an issue that was real and kept popping up
til reports were issued and techniques on loading were agreed on after FUBARS on the
early landings.
 
delra said:
Czert, He wrote defence bonus - not defence immunity.
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Still it realy depends on how they implement it, after all if enemy airplane atatck landig ships, only ships AA fire on them right ? no tranported units fire. Same go for naval combat.
So it will be logical if ONLY defensive value of ships will be used in air/naval combat, but it need to make sure that units on ships will not be attacked by land units.
 
Hamster45 said:
Not to nit pick here, but wouldn't "Invasion Tactics" go better in the naval theory area rather than Escort Ship tab of the Reasearch window? I mean is it equipment to invade better that one would research or tactics/theory on how to pack/store ships better for more effective unloading/fighting...However, it doesn't fit well into the current theory sections with some arguement to be made for Fleet in Being (thinking shore bombardment and such). IMO, it would need its own area in the Naval Theory tabs.
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Formally you may have a point, but it's alot clearer to put all these related techs together at the same place, plus the fact that they are linked as prerequisite what you can see well with the arrows between them.
 
plasticpanzers said:
'Combat Loading' and it was a real technique that need to be learned (and learned again)
as they found out on Guadalcanal and at the Tunis invasion. Until this 'tech is learned'
forces that land should operate at about 90% until a port is captured. Having the toilet
paper first off the boat and ammo last was an issue that was real and kept popping up
til reports were issued and techniques on loading were agreed on after FUBARS on the
early landings.
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+1
 
Landing craft are very fragile and i am unsure on the 'armor' aspect of them unless this
is including supporting DD/DE/Gunboat vessels. Nevertheless if the defender has any
artillery units in his defences or a coastal fort above a certain level (say 4) then that
would cause more artillery damage to the attacker or lower his 'defence/armor' level.

This would give areas of heavy coastal fortifications some counter to
landings as they would have coastal batteries which are a danger to
landing craft. Just regular divisional attached artillery would give
some loss of 'defence armor' to landing craft. There needs to be some
more balance here.
 
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Does the unload progress bar actually represent the unit moving into the shore province? Or is it simply a bar showing the penalty your troops are taking?

The ideal situation would be that once the unload progress is at 100%, the attacking units should then move into the shore province while continuing the same battle, that way the troop transports don't have to sit offshore for days while the battle is won and the troops they were carrying are technically "unloaded".
 
lp60068 said:
Are BB/BC/CA going to provide any additional help in invasions?
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One would assume that no, their shore bombardment bonus is going to stay constant. Though it could apply "longer" (thus representing preparatory bombardments) and adding a bit more damage to the defenders ashore.
 
Wow. Keep up the good work!
Invasions are hard and important part to represent in game.

So of course I have my 2 cents:
- invasions should work like paradrops in Ftm, where if I'm not mistaken, after the initiated order there is a random delay for execution. And the order should work as it ment to be, with a separate inavsion order (no move order from adjacent sea province)
- every invasion should came with the loss of a certain amount of supplies (actually a lot), say 500 for every brigade taking part in it. To represent how much ic, planning, supplies, ect an invasion consumes. And to make it harder to exploit it in game.
- landing craft are welcome, I would definitely make (or mod) them the slowest and weakest sea defence vessels in game.
- pop up window for invasions are extremely welcome
- I hope you guys can make the extraction time moddable

I wasn't even as eager for HoI3 itself, as eager I'm right now. Thanks guys
 
Cybvep said:
3) How fast disembarkation in an empty province is, assuming that we don't use specialised transports for it? Attack penalty was not the problem in pre-TFH Vanilla, the problem was that you could easily and quickly land near a port (even with armoured divs) and avoid all penalties by attacking it by land.
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I agree with this concern and would love an answer to it.

How will this new mechanic stop or delay anyone from using regular TPs to unload 15 panzer divisions to the empty undefended provinces on each side next to a Garrisioned Port?
 
It doesn't, don't leave your coast undefended. 15 armoured divisions is going to have a hell of a penalty if you have even on GAR brigade in the province though.

Speed penalty still applies to empty provinces though, it takes 48 hours with TPs and no techs.
 
It doesn't, don't leave your coast undefended. 15 armoured divisions is going to have a hell of a penalty if you have even on GAR brigade in the province though.
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I don't know how practical that is in FTM, but it was totally impractical in pre-FTM Vanilla. The AI didn't do it, either.

Speed penalty still applies to empty provinces though, it takes 48 hours with TPs and no techs.
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Well, that's sth.
 
If you can't cover your whole coast, prioritise, make strong points etc. Cover your important ports and maybe the bordering provinces. Have a mobile reaction force. I'm sure you know all this, so I'm not sure what the point is, but of course if you leave provinces undefended then others are free to invade them.
 
Darkrenown said:
It doesn't, don't leave your coast undefended. 15 armoured divisions is going to have a hell of a penalty if you have even on GAR brigade in the province though.

Speed penalty still applies to empty provinces though, it takes 48 hours with TPs and no techs.
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Sounds like a good start Darkrenown, and will be very interesting to find out how it balances out in multiplayer. :)

And if there is a speed penalty it does indeed delay the landing.
 
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