Darkrenown

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DD time again! This one is about Landing craft and invasions, which we have been giving some attention to for Their Finest Hour.

For those of you not familiar with them, landing craft during WWII were basically small, flat-bottomed boats which often had a ramped opening at the front, which could be used to rapidly unload men onto beaches. Large versions, known as “Landing craft, tank” or “LCTs” were able to do the same thing with tanks. Landing craft were vital for the large Allied landings in Africa, Europe, and the Pacific, and shortages of LCTs were one of the major reasons Operation Overlord could not be carried out in 1943.

The easiest difference to notice is that we have added two new units: Landing Craft and Assault Ships. Landing Craft can be thought of as a Transport flotilla with many landing craft attached, while Assault ships represent both LCTs and the larger flat-bottomed transport vessels.

LCT Crusader.jpg

So how are they different from Transports ingame? Well, to answer that I need to explain how we've changed invasions. When a unit on a transport ship attacks a coastal province, it now does not immediately start fighting at full power: Instead it must first disembark. Units disembarking have an attack penalty and defence bonus which is inversely proportional to their disembarkment progress (Called Invasion Progress in the unit tooltip), that is, at the start of an invasion most of the unit is still on the ships where it can neither attack the enemy or be shot at, and as it unloads more and more of its combat power is brought into action. You can see the disembarkment progress on the unit as the red area of their icon decreases.
DD5 Their Finest Hour - Invasion.png

This unloading process, coupled with a new message to alert you to invasions, gives the defender time to start moving in more forces before their garrison can be overrun.
DD5 Their Finest Hour - Message.png

The advantage of LCs and Assault Ships is that they can unload troops faster and offer them more protection while doing so. We also have the new Invasion Tactics and Landing Craft Support techs which increase Invasion Speed and Defence respectively.

But that's not all! Your Invasion Defence value also decreases your Amphibious Assault penalty, and Assault Ships have a further bonus to this for Armoured units, enabling the use of tanks in invasions without such a crippling penalty.

Next week: Lend lease + Strategic warfare.
 

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First yea

EDIT: Now I can go back and actually read the post. :)

I really like the new message. I have a couple of questions.
1) Will the AI also become aware of an invasion and more importantly do something to react to it?
2) If there are no defending troops in the province how long will it take to disembark the troops? And does the warning message still show up?
 

Aurik1

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"Next week's DD will be about Lend-Lease and Landing Craft." (DD 4)
And now i can reed: "Next week: Lend lease + Strategic warfare." (DD 5)
What about the Lend lease this week?
 

GrimReaper

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Finally I get my precious Landing Crafts! \o/ :)
 

DaveyDave

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The whole point of building landing craft was to both speed the landing and give the troops some toughness during it (by giving them the mobility to hit the ground, and initiate beach suppression). Landing craft fleets, when used properly, did this. When they weren't, as at Tarawa, it was a bloody mess.

Landing craft were a huge advantage to the Allies, which had them, and a huge disadvantage to, well, everyone else, which largely didn't (at least not enough to really make a difference. Look at the pictures of the supposed landing boats the Germans planned to use in Sealion- any decent defense would have slaughtered them. Even so, the Allies never had enough of them. Invasions in the Pacific theater were delayed because of D-Day. Invasions in Europe after D-Day (south of France excluded) because problematic for the Allies because the Landing Craft had been sent to MacArthur and Nimitz, on the other side of the world.

I think this is a good addition, so long as the ai can now account for the change - both offensively and defensively. That is the bigger job.
 

Art1985

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Will we have to spend IC to rebild infrastructure in provinces? It would be great.... in that case strategical bombing will become more realistic.
 

podcat

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"Next week's DD will be about Lend-Lease and Landing Craft." (DD 4)
And now i can reed: "Next week: Lend lease + Strategic warfare." (DD 5)
What about the Lend lease this week?

It needed more time to lock down the design on how to solve some of it. We also needed an extra diary to fill the last week before release so I decided to only have one topic this time

Will we have to spend IC to rebild infrastructure in provinces? It would be great.... in that case strategical bombing will become more realistic.

we have considered this in the past but I think the amount of micromanagement required wouldn't make it worth it (and having everything auto-repair and cost wouldn't work well)
 

GrimReaper

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Forgot a few questions:

1) What will their respective ranges be? I suspect not as much as regular Transports (doh!)

2) How much cargo can they carry compared to regular Transports?
 

Art1985

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we have considered this in the past but I think the amount of micromanagement required wouldn't make it worth it (and having everything auto-repair and cost wouldn't work well)
Too bad..... but thanks for replay
 

Darkrenown

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1) Range is slighter better. While LC were indeed fairly short ranged, these units include actual ships too.
2) 60, compared to 40 on TPs.

Edit: While I am here, reposting this in case it was missed:
417356_10151035062648499_407988963_o.jpg
 

podcat

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So how much DDs will we get until release?

Current plan, very subject to change:
6/9 - Lend-lease + strategic warfare
13/9 - Espionage
20/9->26/9 - mix-bag! interface improvements, ai improvements, AARs. We might have some other things happening too here.

I find this hard to fap to, but I will manage!

then you don't love invasion craft as much as we do!
 

Daffius

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I'm very happy that this has been implemented and consider it a huge (!) step forward.
A question (well 2 actually):
Would landing crafts still be able to land on any coastal province or will there be restrictions?
Will ports have an effect on the speed of the landing?
 
Last edited:

Darkrenown

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Would landing crafts still be able to land on any coastal province or will there be restrictions?
Will ports have an effect on the speed of the landing?

Any coastal.
Nope. Although if you sail them into a port, unloading is still instant.

Someone asked earlier if you still get the invasion message when the enemy invades an empty province. You do.
 

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I,ve got a question about the disembarkment process. Which seems very logical to use in the game mechanics. However, you also say it gives time to the defender to prevent that the garrison is overrun. That means that nearby divisions and even entirely corps structures can be sent to the province were the beach is stormed. This becomes a daunting task if the invading division is still fighting with classic amph. penalties.

Do you mean that after disembarkment has been succesfull, there's already a significant beachhead for the invader and the fight goes on without the obvious amphibious combat penalties for the invader? So there's an "extra" area created in the province, let's call it beachhead?

This also means that only invading divisions that are on the secured beachhead fight without amph. penalties, all other troops still going through the invasion are not participating in the fight?