Hearts of Iron 4 Subscription Service and Career Profile Updates

[TitanMethos]

Since many of us are old enough to have had experience with one or more subscription plans that did not turn out well, I understand the concern I am seeing here. I would be lying if the idea of subscription does not set off alarm bells in my own head. The potential of subscription to cause harm to one of my favorite games is going to make me sensitive to future changes. I can only hope I can rise above that sensitivity to see things objectively.

Stepping outside of my worry, I do see how subscription can be beneficial in bringing new players into HOI4. One of the problems any DLC model as large as PDX has, is that eventually, the game becomes to expensive for a new player to try out. Who in their right mind is going to spend over $100 to try out a game as complicated as HOI4?

A subscription model lets a new person try out ALL the content for $5 and gives them 30 days to decide if they like it. That is actually kind of amazing when compared to the alternative.

I know if I had just heard of HOI4 today and saw the price tag to get in, I would just walk away. But for $5 and 30 days to play? I would feel more comfortable giving it a try. I know this is true for me, because I have had a certain $75 eastern front game on my wish list for years. I have almost purchased it at least two dozen times, but that price tag, even when on sale, stops me. If it had a $3 to $5 subscription for 30 days, I would have tried it out years ago. If I liked it, I would have purchase it, to get off subscription.

So, while I can see that I am not harmed by this subscription while at the same time it may increase the player base, I will breath easier, even if I cannot make my bottom half stop clenching.

I get where you're coming from, but you can easily get that same benefit for new players with a few demos. Like DLC Tutorial Scenarios. Show off the content, teach players how to use it, if they like it, they buy it...

The attempt to force a subscription service should be stood against on the grounds of principle alone... because most Subscription Software Polices often start with good intension, then devolve into cash-grabby marketing.

It's not the content of the Subscription people are concerned about. What is really getting to people is, "If they're doing this now to make a little more money, what will they do next? How fall will they sink?" I can promise you this, once the subscription launches, they're going to hike the price of the next and all future DLC so it's more appealing... and when they make new games with no content, they're going to instead sell it as a Subscription... And nobody outside the Marketing Office wants that...

 

[TitanMethos]

Is there any plan to reduce the price of the DLCs? The costs are frankly exploitative. The full game currently costs around 140 USD and it's only going to go up from here. This is unethical.

It's not fair to release an unbalanced game (balance changes are made in mind of users who have all DLC, leaving those who don't out to dry) and then charge three times its price for a fully functional copy. Core mechanics are exclusively available to DLC owners. A few highlights that have been bothering me:

• Without MTG, SHBB1 has almost twice the armor of SHBB2.
• Without NSB, super-heavy tanks cost 4000 IC per battalion, way way way more than they did before the release of 1.11 (it was previously 1500 IC)

Sometimes it feels like you don't care about people who can't afford the DLCs, and I really hope that's not true.

Please consider this, and don't just dismiss me as an "entitled toxic fan". I know you work hard and want a return on your investment. I just feel that either the DLC prices should be reduced, or the non-DLC mechanics should be fixed.

Once upon a time, that might have been on the table... but now that they're pushing a Subscription Service... It's not gonna happen... if the DLCs are overpriced, it makes the Subscription all the more appealing...

This crap only ends when the community finds the effort and the reason to boycott... which, it never going to happen to the Big Name Gaming Industry, because these scummy practices are "to be expected" by the communities.

 

[Znail]

You know, once upon a time, there were these things called "Demos" where you let players play a game (or with DLC content) for free, for an hour...
That would make infinitely more sense for your DLC, and wouldn't make you look like greedy pigs... You could easily make a few Tutorial Scenarios that focus on using the DLC content, or playing with a DLC nation. Your bottom line profit doesn't matter much when your community is jumping ship to avoid this nonsense.

Adopting the Subscription-Gaming Model is a gate-way to a lot greedier, scummier, and far less tolerable marketing practices that will drive this community to pirating.
Today, they allow us to play all the DLC if we have subscription. In a year, they'll hike the price of the new DLC so the subscription seems more worthwhile. In two years, new DLC will ONLY be available through subscriptions... and once everyone is on a subscription, Paradox can care even less about the quality of their new content...

Next thing we know, Paradox is as bad as Epic and EA...

As for the Career profile. It's a neat idea, but you should take that a step further. If we have a profile, you can give us the ability to save templates and designs to the profile, then load them in future games or in a main-menu editor. Between Tanks, Ships, and Templates, there is too much to do all the time. It kinda bogs down Multiplayer games. If we can save and load designs and templates, it would be your best quality of life improvement.

Demo's used to be a thing, but not ones that included all DLC or expansions. Most often so would demos only have some of the base game content. So demos hardly compare with an all DLC subscription.

 

[DocDesastro]

I concur with Znail that a 'full demo' is a thing I have not seen yet. DRM could make it possible to unlock content for a small period of time for testing purposes and I would have expected something like this rather than a subscription service.

I still fail to see the whole purpose of the subscription model.
I mean if:
...you are not into HoI4 yet, you would still have to buy the base game and rent the additional content at monthly recurring fee. While this includes having to pay 40€ first before being able to rent anything at all I fail to see how this is any better than buying the whole franchise for $$$ over time because in the end you stay with nothing but the base game and money burnt when you unsubscribe and at some theoretically reachable point of overpaying for the goods if you stay subscribed. I could understand, IF the base game would be included in the subscription. Not really an incentive for a long-term player or generally any person interesting to invest into the franchise. And with a game with a learning curve like HoI4 you will invest time in the game if you take it seriously. I do not think this game qualifies as 'casual'. I would understand it if it were casual and you would play it some hours and then never play it again and move on but since you have to own the base game you are already committed. And if you really like the game and decide to buy all the stuff then you simply would realize that you wasted money in the end.
...you already are playing HoI4 and maybe own some of the DLCs, then I cannot see where it is better to rent a DLC instead of waiting for a sale and get it at a discount if I am not able to spend money for games freely. And if you did not like a certain DLC and refused to buy it before I cannot think one would rather rent it instead as rental always is a worse option than purchase for a customer.
...you own all DLC then clearly it serves no purpose but you might feel threatened by a model emerging you do not like that later could replace the way of doing business currently if successful (and might not be beneficial to you).

I cannot think of a target group where renting a DLC - even for testing - is beneficial. There are so many sources showcasing DLCs out there from dev diaries to patchlogs that explain what changes, youtubers playing the game, forumites' opinions, guides, tutorials, forums, joining an MP game and whatnot. And I think we are talking DLCs containing gamplay content and are not cosmetic.

If it is about showcasing the game how it can be full-fledged it is still somewhat weird. I mean, one might think that the goal is to convince the customer to buy my product at full price. Do I convince people to buy my product by making them pay for testing?

I think, the greatest flaw in the subscription model is that the fees are not accounted for and could not be converted into DLC purchases later. I think it does not fit the product. It fits renting a movie because will you really watch it that often that you need to buy it? That is why Netflix & Co. are quite successful - model fits the product. Same for things useful once but too expensive to buy like special tools you need for only one occasional job. Or for getting things you essentially need but cannot afford to own. But for a game I spend hours upon and over maybe a large span of time? Only makes the game more expensive the longer I play it. I do not think it fits here. Well...let the numbers speak. Somewhere in an accountant's office a person will get the report on revenue and report back to marketing whether it was a good idea.

Still looking forward to developments still on the roadmap for the game. Arheo's little list of things to do looked good.

 

[Idle America]

Custodian Team pls?

Yes please.

 

[Harin]

Last night I decided to try my first overhaul mod since NSB came out. I chose World Ablaze. Just before the game starts, I got an advertising window asking me to subscribe.

Of all places, I wished it was not there.

If advertising or sales pitches should be anywhere, it should be inside the launcher. The launcher should be where business is taken care of. Once I click to play, I am done with business. A sales pitch should not wait until after I have spent several minutes setting up and watching a progress bar inch along and interrupt my last second of anticipation to actually play the game.

It is little things like this that can make more people believe PDX cannot prevent itself from making the same mistakes others have made with subscriptions. I doubt an HOI4 player would have thought to put a hard stop right where the player thinks he is finally there. Good grief. It screams, "I have no clue why the player hit that play button!"

The person who made the final decision either had to make a snap decision and needs to rethink it, or perhaps thought the success of the subscription was more important than the play of the game. If that person rationalizes that for the success of the subscription such minor inconveniences are necessary and will cost few customers, then that person has already started down the slippery slope. The reason it is so slippery, is because this and future inconveniences can look minor, even inconsequential. After a half dozen or more such decisions, it may not be long before people may start asking, how did we get here?

Please consider blocking off the space between clicking to play the game and ending the game as a no-business zone. In that space, focus on play first and foremost. Before and after that space we can conduct business. The game developers control one space and the non-game developers can work in the outside space.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

If advertising or sales pitches should be anywhere, it should be inside the launcher. The launcher should be where business is taken care of. Once I click to play, I am done with business. A sales pitch should not wait until after I have spent several minutes setting up and watching a progress bar inch along and interrupt my last second of anticipation to actually play the game.

Well said, Harin.

I find it in poor taste that the subscribe ad is brightly colored, and twice the size of the other (monochrome) menu choices. It is clearly designed to appear exciting and to entice you to click on it.

To add to what you said, once I've launched the game, the game already knows what DLC I have enabled. If I have all the non-cosmetic DLC already, why is a service being advertised that carries a monthly fee without offering a material difference in gameplay?

I'm fine seeing ads in the launcher since that is more of a mass medium, but in game, Paradox should know-your-customer (KYC), and act like it.

 

[MrMcQue]

I agree with the past few posts. The devs should really reconsider putting ads for the subscription model into the game itself.

 

[lilcritt]

Agree with the past 3 posts. And many more saying the same thing, or the reddit posts hitting front page.

Can't wait for 'thread cleanup'.

 

[Kosaki MacTavish]

Am i irked to see the subscription ad in-game? Just a little, a 2-sec move to close the ad is not a too much bother.

Do i support the other's suggestion to put the ad in the launcher (just like every other announcements, promos, and dev diaries so far) instead of in-game? Well, i'm in, in sense that we keep things tidy.

The RL stuffs stays on the launcher and in-game stuffs like Career Profile stays inside the game.

 

[BrotherJonathan]

Like the Career Profile. The subscription I won't need since I have all the DLC, but if people get some utility out of it that's definitely good.

 

[lilcritt]

Like the Career Profile. The subscription I won't need since I have all the DLC, but if people get some utility out of it that's definitely good.

I rather they dont cannibalize features for an arbitrary subscription. Why not include in he DLC that just came out or the free patch alongside it?

 

[Arheo]

I rather they dont cannibalize features for an arbitrary subscription. Why not include in he DLC that just came out or the free patch alongside it?

To be clear for the last time: the career profile is not tied to the subscription option.

To others; we will be making some changes to who sees the subscription ad. It is not intended to target those who own the major DLCs.

 

[HerrWolf88]

Why can't paradox make the ad not appear for people who have all the DLC at the very least?

 

[lilcritt]

To be clear for the last time: the career profile is not tied to the subscription option.

To others; we will be making some changes to who sees the subscription ad. It is not intended to target those who own the major DLCs.

We were responding to the career stats being separate and in the launcher only - as (if any) ads should be, not in the main menu. Sassy-pants.

Thanks for making that change and listening. I appreciate that at the very least.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

To others; we will be making some changes to who sees the subscription ad. It is not intended to target those who own the major DLCs.

Thanks for making this change- much appreciated!

 

[Kosaki MacTavish]

To be clear for the last time: the career profile is not tied to the subscription option.

To others; we will be making some changes to who sees the subscription ad. It is not intended to target those who own the major DLCs.

And my day is already made. Thank you very much, man.

 

[Frognastie]

This is a crock... Thats me done for this game, I dont mind paying for DLC, but the content release lately has been poor.

 

[general george patton]

So if I read this right, If I have a subscription and the base game everything else is included and I don't need to buy anything else. Is this correct?....GP

 

[mathers]

These are the requirements for stat collections

If a mod that is not "ironman friendly" is enabled, stats collection will be disabled.

If any console command is used, collection will also be disabled.

If the save file being loaded or game data has been manipulated, it's also disabled

Stat collection will start to work again once the player starts a new save, after being disabled previously

What is the purpose of these restrictions? (The mod maybe I understand since tank and tank is not the same - although even that should be a game rule/option)