Hearts of Iron 1 was an expensive, bug-ridden, loss-making failure, and I'm okay with that.

[Zaku]

The problem IMO is that HOI4 doesn't seem anymore an "upgrade" of HOI but looks like a sequel of EU...

Care to elaborate?

 

[Dev]

3) I work 10+ hours each day working on games, and we spent about 90% of our time on Hearts of Iron after the release until late February to support the game with patches. I just got home from a 13 hour workday on Victoria and I was gonna check on a HoI bug..."

hah that reminds me of post Frederik once made (I think it was after HoI 2 was released) where he basicly said he had sent Johan on a forced vacation because they didn't want him to burn out.

Even for all its flaws HoI 1 was easily the best grand stragegy game created at its time. Times were different back then.

 

[VinceDN]

Secret Master and FOARP in a single thread? My god feels like 2007 all over. Getting HOI2 from a bargain bin in a supermarket at sixteen thinking 'hey this looks like Risk with panzerzzzz'.

HOI2 pre-patches wasn't pretty either, but things got better around Doomsday: Inbetween Total Realism Project, mod'34 and BeBro's sprite packs there was so much awesome stuff to upgrade HOI2 with - Felt like HOI 2.5.

I am confident HOI IV will get similar modding love. I just hope we have an awesome functional multiplayer this time around. See you all in june!

 

[Axe99]

@GrafKeks - any chance you could check post #57 and edit yours appropriately? This is a nice nostalgic thread, would be a shame to see it closed.

 

[Cardus]

Care to elaborate?

Sure there are several things that make me think that for example what about
1) national ideas
2) the need to abstract logistics and therefore no fuel
3) the need to abstract air units
4) the need to abstract brigades
5) the need to abstract paradrops
6) teleporting bombers
7) few things like air cover, production and supply that work at region instead of at province level
etc..

Maybe, if you try by yourself, you will find a lot in common between HOI4 and EU.

That's a bold move, posting something like that here.

If my post sounds offensive I am available to delete it.

 

[Zaku]

1) national ideas

National focuses work differently in HOI4 then they work in EU4. In hoi4 they guide you on the historical(or ahistorical) path you chose. In EU4 you just select them for the bonuses.

2) the need abstract logistics and therefore no fuel

Hoi4 has a much more complex logistics system then EU4 has. Can't even compare the two. I would even go as far to say that it's even better then it was in HOI3. Maybe not as realistic, but definitely better IMO.

3) the need to abstract air units

What? do you mean there are abstract air units in EU4 as well? Are they in a DLC or something? Must have missed them.

4) the need to abstract brigades

Err.. they are not abstracted. You can build very detailed brigades/divisions.

5) the need to abstract paradrops

Is this feature in the same EU4 DLC then the air units?

EDIT: 6th and 7th points: Again, there is no air system in the EU series at all, so the comparison you try to make has no sense.
Buildings/supply are both province based in the EU series. HOI3-2-1 also had province based buildings/supply, so this change actually increased the gap between the two series instead of closing it as you suggest.

The air system is simpler in some regards, but it is much more complex in others then it was in previous HOIs.
Let me give some examples:
Hoi4: Each plane is represented. > Hoi3: You have air units with uncertain/unspecified amount of planes in them.
Hoi4: Variant system > HOI3: All your planes "level up" when you research a new tech and spend enough IC.
Hoi4: If you lose aircraft you need to replace them. If you don't have enough production of the more modern variants you may need to use the older, pre war stockpile > Hoi3: Just increase the reinforcements slider.
Teleportation seems a bit odd, but apart from that I love the new air system.
Managing a large air war in HOI3 was terribly stressing.

I really can't see much in common between the two game franchises. I mean it's obvious that the same company develops them because there are similarities in the UI and the general looks. As for gameplay they are completely different, apart from the obvious things. (Both are grand strategies, both are on planet Earth...)

 

[Axe99]

Sure there are several things that make me think that for example what about
1) national ideas
2) the need to abstract logistics and therefore no fuel
3) the need to abstract air units
4) the need to abstract brigades
5) the need to abstract paradrops
6) teleporting bombers
7) few things like air cover, production and supply that work at region instead of at province level
etc..

Maybe, if you try by yourself, you will find a lot in common between HOI4 and EU.

While I share some of your concerns (possibly all of them ) about logistics, and agree the stacking-limit style approach is a step closer to EU4, I'm not sure about the others. While National spirits are clearly a similar thing to national ideas in EU4, I think they're a sensible thing to have in the game (and the HoI3 TFH 'decision buffs' were in effect temporary national ideas in practice).

Air units and brigades, though, seem less abstract than HoI3 (and as Zaku notes, it's fairly hard to compare the implementation of air units between HoI and EU). In the latest WWW, Daniel showed how he quickly split up his various air wings to deal with multiple jobs in a far more detailed way than was possible in HoI3, because wings are comprised of discrete aircraft now. Same for brigades - in HoI3, we had set brigades with set stats (like EU, although HoI has many more of them). In HoI4, we build brigades from discrete battalions, choosing which equipment those battalions will have, with the ability to create variants of some of the more important equipment. This seems a step away from EU, not towards it.

On #7, I'd say that this makes HoI more like Vicky than EU, EU is still very much province-based in its buildings, production and supply, while Vicky has state-based buildings (but still province-based supply and resources).

 

[Hanitora]

3) the need to abstract air units

I'm not gonna bother addressing the other parts, but this is a "what" moment for me.
What the hell is this supposed to be? Air units were abstracted in all HoI games to the exact same degree as HoI4 if not more. You had a single plane representing an air wing which you could send on various missions. You could group these fixed size air wings together to create stronger air forces in an area. If anything, the abstraction has become more detailed, because now the air wings are no longer of fixed size and your old planes don't disappear into the ether when your air wing gets upgraded to the latest equipment.

All HoI games have massive degree of abstraction. Production is way more abstracted in HoI3 than HoI4, for example, but even in HoI4 production is massively abstracted compared to reality where you have to produce parts like engines, bearings, transmissions, etc and then put them together not just pop out complete vehicles. That by the way is what I want out of my HoI game. Having to produce engines, bearings, transmissions and then put them together in a tank. Not that I'll ever get it, because that makes the game a lot more complicated for no inherent gameplay benefit.

 

[Killerrabbit]

The best bug in HOI1 was that a nuclear bomb could be used as many times you want.

 

[Fulmen]

^^also part of the reason why I'm ticked with pirates (and all their paper-thin excuses).

I know a lot of people who started playing PDX games by pirating them at first but then ended up faithfully buying most of their products because they like them and want to support the company.

 

[Secret Master]

This is why we can't have nice things.

I already said we should stop talking about software piracy. Both Had a dad and I have already deleted a bunch of posts on that topic. But since people want to continue to discuss piracy and make posts that directly or indirectly express support for piracy, I guess I'll have to kill the thread.

Thread closed.

 

[Had a dad]

If you want an automatic infraction, discuss piracy. If you advocate it, a perma ban from the forum results.