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I've been playing games in earnest since the mid-90s and the type of game I am interested in has changed over time. In recent years I have been more attracted to strategy titles and point-and-click adventure games. Function of age? Perhaps, but that is the way it is. I have made attempts to get started with a variety of Paradox Interactive titles (notably HoI 2 and EU 3) but have not made it past the first hurdles. With that said...I go on to the subject in hand...

I bought Elven Lagacy new back in May 2009 and promptly traded it in. The botched tutorial (I'm a great fan of tutorials) confused me and the truncated speech files in the FMVs told me the game had issues. I applied the final patch for the game and was encouraged to see the tutorial worked but was saddened that no work had gone in to fix the speech problem in the FMVs. Also, least said about the manual the better.

Fast forward to last week, when I bought the Elven Legacy Complete Collection... I hoped that by buying the Complete Collection, I was buying a game with problems that had been fixed. I was saddened to note (a) the problem with speech files in FMVs had not been fixed, (b) a pdf of the innaccurate and misleading manual was included on the DVD and (c) show-stopper bugs in two expansions had not been fixed by a final patch.

I have scoured these forums for inspiration and hope. I discovered a humble reply from a board moderator which referred to the the size of Paradox Interactive being an issue and that helps...I guess.

For me, gaming is first about trust. Buying a game in a Complete Collection form is about buying a fixed game...the best experience available of that game. Have I missed something here? Other developers don't seem to have this problem, although they may well be much bigger. I followed the HoI 3 release debacle with interest and don't even talk about Magicka... Please help me understand what is going on here as that Complete Collection is also going out!
 

Nikolai II

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Trust is a good way of putting it, and for me the only trust is that if I buy a Paradox game, they have (so far) always turned out to be good with some patience. You make a safer purchase if you wait until the game is on sale, because by then it will be fixed - but I tend to buy early anyway, based upon that trust, and the belief that my money will somehow help keep them in business until they have produced the improved and magnificent game they usually end up with.

Paradox-distributed games (like Elven Legacy) are made by another company and simply sold by Paradox, and there I have less trust, since an unknown entity has been added. These entities are getting better, since Paradox distribution is getting more of a reputation and seem to be getting other applicants for distribution beyond the most desperate.

And I agree with you in general - a Complete Collection should be fixed. In this case, it is merely the last released version(s) which in some cases means the game is in a bad state. But many companies are settling for second best these days. The game is finished, a patch is released, and then it is abandoned. I dislike this state of business, but the only way I can act upon it is by voting with my money - to purchase or not purchase games. (Or optionally, by emailing the company in question, just to tell them how I feel.)

If it is any relief (I guess it might not be), then I think the Complete Collection is basically the best to hope for. (Especially with that one final bugfix available on the forums.)
 

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A bunny with a hat...Thank you for your reply. I guess that I would like to get to that point (with regards to trust) whereby I become a fan of Paradox Interactive titles. I suppose that you could say that is my master plan, but obstacles keep on getting in the way. Obstacles like this, whereby I have hoped things would be better now (2011, rather than in 2009, when the game was launched for the English speaking public) but found they weren't after all.

I have spotted the bugfix you refer to and the hard/gold walkthrough will be a help. If someone can find a fix to the problem with the overlapping speech files in the FMVs then I might persevere.

Thanks.
 

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I was just thinking...how wonderful it would be if:-

1. Someone at Paradox Interactive/Ino-Co said, yep, we'll get a fix to the overlapping speech files problem in the FMVs. Just give us 48 hours.

2. I link was provided to an improved version of the manual and...

3. Fixes for "showstopper" bugs in the expansions were collected, and accessible in one location/thread.

Think of the respect that would be directed at PI/Ino-Co if this were to happen. What General came up with this saying? "Even at this late hour, victory can be plucked from the wings of defeat!"
 

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I was just thinking...how wonderful it would be if

Strategy market is a small one now. You can do "casual" games like Starcraft 2 or Anno 1404 (well, they are very deep and cool, but they are easy to learn and play) - but then you have to get fancy graphics, music and interface and fight big boys who already own the market. Paradox publishes games that are not so casual. Those games are for hardcore fans who want to go deeper. And so you have a dillemma: you have to make deep complex games but you don't have big money and won't ever have cause you'll always have so much hardcore gamers.

We could be saved by genius programmers or some other miracles but sadly we aren't saved still. So you have deep interesting games like Elven Legacy or Europa Universalis which require patches, fixes, community help and ability to ignore some fatal issues. Elven Legacy doesn't even has a fan base. Good graphics and sound - still not popular, although the game is great and rare tactical RPG on PC. Sad but true.
 

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Buladelu..."ignore fatal issues." You've summed it up so well and thank you for bothering to reply...It's appreciated! I guess that Ino-Co are the ones to blame, but the fatal issues I refer to are well known about, but completely ignored (even on their forums!) For me, the greater good is about getting the basics right. I like FMVs in games; I've liked them ever since Command and Conquer days, way back in 1994/5. FMVs are the "reward" the gamer gets for completing a level/task or something else. If the FMV is bugged, then I regard that as no reward (for completing the level) at all. Likewise the manual...there are contractual reasons why the manual should be improved, but that is also ignored (while they worked on the expansions!) Lastly, the show-stopper bugs in expansions that still exist. Interestingly, I can accept that, but I would say that fixes/work-rounds for these problems should all be in one place; not scattered over the forum. I am not too hard on Paradox Interactive with regard to these problems, but the fact that they distribute this game make it less likely that I will buy another of their (own) titles. This is all a bit sad as I regard Paradox Interactive strategy titles as the best in town, but, sadly, I'll be sticking with Relic until QA aspects of PI titles improve.
 

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Given the lack of community support here and the absence of Ino-Co and Paradox Interactive intervention with current problems (it's not as if it's an old game) I shall be ditching the game and moving on. As mentioned before, I'm still a fan (of sorts) of PI but I have to question whether they understand what supporting third party games they distribute really means. Perhaps it is just my lemming instinct, but I am now on the lookout for a true PI developed game to get stuck into. Hardcore games is a mindset some acquire and I guess that I have just got to keep working on it! I've tried this unsuccessfuly before with Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 so perhaps the prognosis is not good...
 

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Given the lack of community support here and the absence of Ino-Co and Paradox Interactive intervention with current problems (it's not as if it's an old game) I shall be ditching the game and moving on. As mentioned before, I'm still a fan (of sorts) of PI but I have to question whether they understand what supporting third party games they distribute really means. Perhaps it is just my lemming instinct, but I am now on the lookout for a true PI developed game to get stuck into. Hardcore games is a mindset some acquire and I guess that I have just got to keep working on it! I've tried this unsuccessfuly before with Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 so perhaps the prognosis is not good...

The problem is that Elven Legacy is not as complex as typical P-x game and doesn't have problems with bugs or speed or graphics as Paradox developed games :)
 

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Nikolai 2...Thank you for that advice. I browsed the shelves of CEX here in Birmingham, England this lunch-time but didn't spot any Paradox Interactive titles. I picked up Sword of the Stars and the first expansion while I was there but I'll keep looking for EU 3 or HoI 2 or 3. I'm currently using a 5.5 year old rig and haven't begun with digital downloads yet. I'm a big fan of digital downloads, as they seem to be the best way of getting money to the better game developers and distributors. The plan is to only buy games on digital download when we buy our next rig. End of 2012, perhaps :)
 
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The Forgiven
What is "FMV"?
What is "show-stopper bugs"?
For more details, please, for the poor to understand English.
 

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alehan...I thought this thread had died, but I will answer the questions you ask!

FMV is an abbreviation for Full Motion Video. FMVs are the bits of game story that start and finish games and are sometimes found between game levels too. The Russian FMVs in Elven Legacy may be fine but the English localised ones have a problem with overlapping voice-overs. This problem was known about when the original game was released in the UK in May 2009, but Ino-Co and Paradox Interactive have ignored requests for this problem to be fixed.

Show-stopper bugs... In two of the expansions for Elven Legacy, there are problems that are easily encountered and can prevent the gamer from making any further progress. For one problem, there is file available which fixes it, but you have to dig into threads to find it. For the second problem, there is no fix for it, but the walkthrough for the game (found both here and at Gamefaqs) has a work-around. Again, Ino-Co and Paradox Interactive owe it to people who buy the game to get these problems fixed in a patch (it is not as if this is an old game) but both parties are unwilling to help.

Thankfully, representatives of Paradox Interactive (or their fans, speaking for them here) have admitted that the problem is to do with games they distribute, but haven't developed, and that they must improve in the future. This is encouraging, although I will certainly think twice before buying anything else developed by Ino-Co!
 
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The developer(Ino-Co) did not translate. Only collect build.
Translation engaged publisher(1с, Paradox).


Most of the team Ino-Co have gone on to develop Majesty 2 in 2008. English Elven Legacy was released in 2009.
The company is not big. The publisher decided that the most important release Majesty 2 than a patch for the Elven Legacy.
Their can understand business is business.

For the second problem...
If you give a direct link to the problem, then I'll try it fixed.

Sorry for my English.
 

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alehan...Thank you for replying...

Ino-Co/1C went on to develop three expansions for Elven Legacy, so their work in 2009 was not finished! While they were working on the expansions, they should have fixed the problem with the overlapping (English language) sound files in the FMVs. I'm guessing that this is a "localisation" issue, but I could be wrong.

Thank you for your offer of help with the second problem. As I mentioned, there is a fix or work-round available for both problems but the information has to be searched for on this forum. I think that it best just to leave things as they are, as no one seems to care (except you, of course) and we will just end up wasting our time.

Thanks again.
 

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If you give a direct link to the problem, then I'll try it fixed.

Sorry for my English.

Thank you very much! I'll quote the walkthrough...

GameFAQs Walkthrough said:
Siege Bonus Mission 3 - Inquest

This is a bugged mission where once you spawn the "Mage's Shadow" unit, your
own mage gets a 5 turn timer on it at which point he despawns and the game
ends. In addition once you summon a Mage's Shadow the game doesn't register
your mage stepping on any quest hexes, which means even the act of summoning a
Mage's Shadow immediately makes the mission impossible.
 
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Ino-Co/1C went on to develop three expansions for Elven Legacy, so their work in 2009 was not finished!
Not. Ino-Co finished develop all expansions for Elven Legacy in summer - early autumn
2008. :)
In Russia, all the expansions came in 2008. They do not differ from English(differences only in translation).

Thank you for discussions.

Thank you very much! I'll quote the walkthrough...
I corrected this a long time.

Topic - http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?453880-Inquest-Mission-help

Direct link to fix - http://files.ijbest.ru/warcodex/mod/fix_summon.rar

You do not work this fix?


Sorry for my English.
 

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Alehan...Once again, thank you for keeping with this thread. Your English is good enough for us to understand, so don't be too hard on yourself! What you are saying about the Elven Legacy expansions is very interesting. The impression was that the expansions were being developed after the English localised main game was released here in the EU/UK, back in May 2009. I guess that impression was completely wrong and the only work taking place was the English localisation work. This begs a bigger question, and that is...why wasn't the Complete Collection available from the start? Using the same voice talent and localisers, Ino-Co/1C could have released (to the English speaking world) the Complete Collection from the word go!

This gets even more confusing when we note that bugs in the expansions were not fixed in the English localised version of the game! How could they have let that happen?

Anyway, from the sound of it, the whole episode feels like a "fire and forget" job; the sort of thing that Paradox Interactive should have learnt from..the sort of thing that would inform how they handle future collaborations with out-of-house developers...
 

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The game a native Russian language.
Initially, the publisher was Atari (Fantasy Wars, is the beginning of the saga).
But something did not work out, and Ino-Co are looking for another publisher.
It is not known when the contract was concluded with Paradox. A possible reason for the delay with the release of the English version.

This begs a bigger question, and that is...why wasn't the Complete Collection available from the start?
Reason not to release the Complete Collection. Paradox advantageous to produce all the products one by one, and only after together. The usual practice for all publishers.
Business.

This gets even more confusing when we note that bugs in the expansions were not fixed in the English localised version of the game! How could they have let that happen?
Typically, the publisher requests texts. Publisher himself engaged in translation. After that, the developer collects(compilation) build. However, the developer may not know the language.
 

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alehan...Thank you again for your replies. It is good having someone post here who has a wider appreciation of the problems. Your remarks about the involvement of Paradox Interactive are interesting as I had no idea that they were involved with localisation of the game and expansions. Your mention of Fantasy Wars is important as my feeling is that Elven Legacy should have been released with a copy of Fantasy Wars "in the box." If this had been done, the problems of a faulty manual and botched tutorial would have been overcome. Also, Elven Legacy itself is obviously just a Fantasy Wars mod and not worthy of a series/game by itself. If Elven Legacy had shipped with major improvements to the game engine, then it might have been considered as a true sequel, but this didn't happen. The whole episode is something of a mess and I'm guessing that no-one is happy about what happened. I've played and greatly enjoyed Kings Bounty by Katauri Interactive. They are also based in Eastern Europe so perhaps Ino-Co could learn/improve by liaising with them...who knows.
 
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