Heads-up: upcoming release will be save-incompatible if using SWMH

[zijistark]

Ahoy, everyone!

This is just a heads-up: the next/upcoming release of HIP will be save-incompatible.

SWMH will be releasing their overhaul of the Caucasus, work on Prussia, lots of work filling in holes in title history in the East / Persia-- continuation of the overhaul from the Eastern Expansion, adding new cultures, etc. and the version will be necessarily save-incompatible.

We'd hoped to delay release of these features until the next major CK2 patch (in fact, I promised some of you that we would-- sorry!), but since the next major CK2 patch will be out at an unknown time too far into the future to keep this stuff bottled-up, we're going to go ahead and introduce them in the next release. I apologize for any inconvenience, but it does seem like a good time to toss aside the Old and usher in the New.

Speaking of the New, it should be a pretty big & exciting release all around the HIP block, with quite a bit of New coming to you all at once. I'll avoid fueling the hype machine any further for now, though.

Since most HIP users do use SWMH for their map, EMF might take this opportunity to make some save-incompatible changes as well, but it's a low likelihood, so if you're not using SWMH, this probably doesn't concern you.

But, of course, there's one obvious question remaining on your mind:

When's it coming?

While I can say that the release will be sometime before Christmas, I can't yet further comment on the ETA besides Soon™ (but not so soon that this isn't actually a helpful heads-up!).

Holiday cheers,
-ziji

 

[Fizzwhizz]

Thank you and the team very much for your hard work. It's appreciated

Do you think you'll also be unveiling the HIPlite you spoke of for those of us who can't run the mod since the last expansion?

 

[zijistark]

Thank you and the team very much for your hard work. It's appreciated

Do you think you'll also be unveiling the HIPlite you spoke of for those of us who can't run the mod since the last expansion?

I haven't been actively working on it again so far (miniSWMH / SWMH-Lite, haven't decided upon a name), but it does seem to me that it would be a great complement to the next release if it's indeed possible to finish by then (mostly a function of user interest levels vs. my other projects): EMF itself will be getting a little slower than the lightning-fast mod that it's been known to be so far with the addition of an overhauled version of Plus's faction system, so it'd make even more sense to offer an option for trimming-down the effective size of the map for your SWMH games (only cutting India, the non-vanilla stuff in Africa [Central Africa / Sahara], and W. Africa-- basically the standard choices of what to cut from the map in any performance mod).

Using the installer's feature which allows you to make multiple different HIP installations by specifying a custom mod name / folder, you could use whichever variants that feel important to any given campaign.

 

[Fabl3d]

any news on the NBRT for SWMH, or is that still delayed indefinitely?

 

[theKing1988]

any news on the NBRT for SWMH, or is that still delayed indefinitely?

There is sadly still radio silence from EOOQE, so an update to NBRT won't be a part of the upcoming release

 

[elvain]

great to hear the news. Btw, will it include the fixes for the African cut-off in provinces I have partly done for you?

 

[theKing1988]

great to hear the news. Btw, will it include the fixes for the African cut-off in provinces I have partly done for you?

It will. Although not all of them. Seeing as the big part of this release is my overhaul i took care of cutting provinces as well as adding them

You mentioned balance problems between East Africa and Egypt in your correspondance with Aasmul, so i didn't touch those suggestions. No need to upset balance, when it's technically working as intended at the moment. At least the Egypt vs. Nubia/Abyssinia balance. Nubia/Abyssinia vs. Bejan balance could still use tweaking. If you ever find some period-appropriate holdings that we can add to bring up holding slots for the Bejans and thereby give them some more power, we'd be happy to implement it in upcoming versions

And i didn't have readily available information on how to shift around holdings to accomodate for your suggestion reorganisation of provinces in the Marrakech duchy. You suggested cutting a province and creating another to replace it, so i left that alone as well. It can always be re-visited later.

ETA: Also if you notice anything off in Persia or anything that can be added do mention it. I've tried at first to fill in enough holes for the Persian title history to be functional up to the Break-up of the Great Seljuks in 1157

 

[elvain]

And i didn't have readily available information on how to shift around holdings to accomodate for your suggestion reorganisation of provinces in the Marrakech duchy. You suggested cutting a province and creating another to replace it, so i left that alone as well. It can always be re-visited later.

yup, that is understandable and is totally fine, I should have given you more information. Anyway, you could have asked when you were unsure about anything.

You mentioned balance problems between East Africa and Egypt in your correspondance with Aasmul, so i didn't touch those suggestions. No need to upset balance, when it's technically working as intended at the moment. At least the Egypt vs. Nubia/Abyssinia balance. Nubia/Abyssinia vs. Bejan balance could still use tweaking. If you ever find some period-appropriate holdings that we can add to bring up holding slots for the Bejans and thereby give them some more power, we'd be happy to implement it in upcoming versions

Yup, I mentioned ballance problems, but it seems that you probably misunderstood them. It wasn't like they cause misbalance, but that they don't solve the balance issues enough.

In your previous version (which you seem to want to keep), the Beja were eliminated by the Nubians in 7/10 cases within first 5 years, in 9/10 in 15 years and in none of my test games they survived for more than 50 years.
OTOH after implementing my changes, they managed to survive in 7/10 in the first 20 years and once they managed to actually conquer Nubia. In the long run (50+) years they are still weak compared to Nubia, but if it is not too late now, I would strongly recomend you to implement those changes for balance sake. It does not solve the issues, but improves it.

I tried my best in adding historical empty holdings there, but I fear there will have to be both more empty holdings and more provinces with empty holdings. With Nubia this strong and profiting from the Baqt, the Beja will also probably need some other boost (perhaps some culturaly unique buildings with bonuses against Nubians, or the Nubians will have to be more vulnerable to the desert cavalry. Still discarding the changes I made for you makes the balance a lot worse, so if you can, consider adding them. It would be shame to wait for yet another save-breaking release as I suppose Ziji won't want to have the next version to be save-breaking again.

Also IIRC there should be no problem with Egypt. Nubia got weakened in those changes so it should be fine. In my test games I haven't spotted any ballance issue between Egypt and Nubia, so also the changes in Egypt should be ok and again, should be improvement of balance rather than cause balance issues.

Also if you notice anything off in Persia or anything that can be added do mention it. I've tried at first to fill in enough holes for the Persian title history to be functional up to the Break-up of the Great Seljuks in 1157

Great you've done also this, I'm glad somebody could finnish what I couldn't. Thanks. I will certainly check it.

PS: what does ETA mean in your interpretation?

 

[theKing1988]

Edited to Add

Also do keep in mind that the Baqt is being scrapped for the upcoming version, so Nubia and Abyssinia will not be nearly as powerful as they are now.

ETA: I still feel like the less intrusive way of addressing the balance would be to buff the Bejans with holding slots. They are the real Balance-outlier in the region, once the Baqt gets taken away from the East Africans.

 

[elvain]

okay, because the more commonly used (at least as I know it) is Estimated time of announcement.

btw, I have edited the post to add there a part about Egypt which you might have missed due to fast reply, so here it is again:

Also IIRC there should be no problem with Egypt. Nubia got weakened in those changes so it should be fine. In my test games I haven't spotted any ballance issue between Egypt and Nubia, so also the changes in Egypt should be ok and again, should be improvement of balance rather than cause balance issues.

Anyway do you think you could implement the proposals in the Egypt/Nubia/MaikeleBahr area already in this release? It would be a shame to wait for them until another gamebreaking version of HIP.

 

[elvain]

Also do keep in mind that the Baqt is being scrapped for the upcoming version, so Nubia and Abyssinia will not be nearly as powerful as they are now.

Well, still even without the Baqt they are much stronger than the Beja (I tested it also with SWMH only, that means without the baqt), so, as said previously, having the chagnes implemented won't cause balance issues, but address them, even if not enough.

Do you think it is doable to have those changes in? or is it rather a question for Ziji?

EDIT:

ETA: I still feel like the less intrusive way of addressing the balance would be to buff the Bejans with holding slots. They are the real Balance-outlier in the region, once the Baqt gets taken away from the East Africans.

Of course, you have probably noticed that I have been doing this in my changes, there were at least 1-2 holding slots added to each Beja province, maybe sometimes even more, but it seems not to be enough. Something more has to be done, so the Beja would actually become a life-threat for the Nubians. My experiments elswhere don't suggest that adding another 1-2 holdings (the maximal possible number in this region) in all of those 5-7 provinces can give them any substantial buff against Nubia, especially not if the Beja are not united.

 

[zijistark]

When we drop the Baqt (might do this today, so we can start to see observes of that in play), we could consider applying a special modifier just to the initial Beja provinces or the Bejan rulers that makes them a bit more effective. I hate to band-aid balance this way, but sometimes it does need to be done.

 

[elvain]

I think I have hijacked the thread already bit too much, so the answer can be found here

 

[CrabHelmet]

Sorry, I think I missed this discussion. Why is the Baqt being dropped?

 

[evan1119]

Any update on when we can expect the release? Before Xmas p, after Xmas but before New Years?

Sorry I'm a petulant child

 

[Boucicaut]

trimming-down the effective size of the map for your SWMH games (only cutting India, the non-vanilla stuff in Africa [Central Africa / Sahara], and W. Africa-- basically the standard choices of what to cut from the map in any performance mod)..

This that mean it will give us an option for removing the entirety of india and all of africa save for the north of the continent? This would be a truly great performance boost that would make the mod playable again by the under equipped peasants such as myself . As of now I can't play the mod for more than a few decades before the slowdown becomes too heavy and the game also starts crashing every once in a while. I really hope it will make into the new release, I will eagerly test it.

As of now swmhm has 2000 provinces compared to 1463 from vanilla right? How many provinces would swmhm "lite" have with all the removals?

 

[Boucicaut]

Also, don't be discouraged if only a few people saw the mention of this possible swmhm lite release and commented on it. I wasn't actually aware of it until last week when another poster mentioned it in another thread.

A lot of people don't play the mod due to performance but would like to, myself included. I played it in earlier releases even though it always hampered performance(love the mod), had to stop after horse lords because it simply became unplayable.

Anything you could to improve it will surely add many new(or returning) users to the mod.

 

[theKing1988]

This that mean it will give us an option for removing the entirety of india and all of africa save for the north of the continent? This would be a truly great performance boost that would make the mod playable again by the under equipped peasants such as myself . As of now I can't play the mod for more than a few decades before the slowdown becomes too heavy and the game also starts crashing every once in a while. I really hope it will make into the new release, I will eagerly test it.

As of now swmhm has 2000 provinces compared to 1463 from vanilla right? How many provinces would swmhm "lite" have with all the removals?

SWMH doesn't have 2000 actual provinces. A lot of those are seazones and Wastelands.

 

[Boucicaut]

SWMH doesn't have 2000 actual provinces. A lot of those are seazones and Wastelands.

What is the total difference from vanilla then? Just curious really.

 

[zijistark]

What is the total difference from vanilla then? Just curious really.

About 450 playable provinces, IIRC.