HBS presentation at Mechcon

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EmptyPepsiCan

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Now whether a game with the 3025-lore correct weight distribution of 'Mechs (30% lights - almost all of them Wasps, Stingers, and Locusts, 40% mediums, 20% heavies, and less than 10% assaults) would be fun, well, that's a subjective opinion. I think I would enjoy it, since I much prefer the pre-heavies part of the game anyway, but your mileage on that will inevitably vary. Some people just want to stomp around in assaults, and who am I to deny them that pleasure?

Just for reference, the above weight distribution would mean an average 'Mech company would consist of
  • 4 lights
  • 5 mediums
  • 2 heavies
  • 1 assault
Now of course not all 'Mech companies are average, and what's saying you're not the one with the 12 assaults, right? That's fine, we want to have fun the way we want to have fun and I'm not going to tell anyone how to enjoy their game.

But lore-wise, the game leans way, way too heavily to the heavies and assaults. Almost ridiculously so - The Black Widow Company, perhaps the most famous of all mercenary companies, didn't have a single assault 'Mech in their 3025 line-up:
  • Command Lance: Warhammer, Marauder, Crusader, Griffin
  • Fire Lance: Archer, Archer, Wasp, Stinger
  • Recon Lance: Rifleman, Phoenix Hawk, Stinger, Stinger
That's 6 heavies, 2 mediums, and 4 lights - not an average company by any means, but not the 12 assaults we routinely get to in the game either.

Another example, McKinnon's Raiders:
  • Command Lance: Marauder, Warhammer, Phoenix Hawk, Stinger
  • Medium Lance: Crusader, Phoenix Hawk, Rifleman, Wasp
  • Recon Lance: Griffin, Shadowhawk, Wasp, Stinger
Again, not a single assault in sight. Four heavies, four mediums, and four lights.

Final example, Cranston Snord's Irregulars:
  • Command Lance: Archer, Warhammer, Thunderbolt, Wolverine
  • Attack Lance: Rifleman, Rifleman, Shadow Hawk, Crusader
  • Recon Lance: Phoenix Hawk, Wasp, Wasp, Locust
Six heavies, three mediums, three lights. Not a single assault.

These are the kinds of mercenary companies that exist in 3025 BattleTech (the lance compositions are from the three first published flashpoints scenario packs, Tales of the Black Widow, The Fox's Teeth, and Cranston Snord's Irregulars), and are a big part of what made me love the setting (the lore!) in the first place. The BattleTech universe in 3025 is decidedly NOT filled with assault 'Mechs, and that's the way I like it :)

Dare to dream...

I have the same problem with variety in the physical world.

I'm trying to put together a mech company in 1/72 scale, and man is it frustrating. You'd think it would be easy, since 3025 is all about the Unseen, and every mech you listed from those venerable companies has been released as a model kit, but unfortunately the scales are all completely wrong for Battletech.

The Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, and Crusader are all Battroids (or based on Battroids), so they're all the same size, which is huge. The Rifleman, Longbow, Warhammer, and Archer are all Destroids, so they're also roughly the same size, which is a good deal smaller than the Battroids. The Marauder is a Glaug, which is absolutely enormous. The Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Scorpion, Goliath, and Wolverine are from the Dougram TV show, and all are scaled smaller than the mechs from Robotech/Macross.

So, for instance, in 1/72 scale a Wasp is the same size as a Crusader, and both are much larger than a Warhammer, which is the same size as a Rifleman or a Longbow but much smaller than a Marauder and a good deal larger than a Battlemaster. You can drop the Battroids down to 1/100 scale, but then the Wasp is about the same size as a Griffin or a Shadow Hawk, although it probably looks pretty good next to a Wolverine, which is the same size as a Battlemaster. You could drop all the way down to 1/144 scale for a Wasp or Stinger, but then the heads would be way, way too small to represent cockpits for 1/72 scale figures, and the mechs might even be too small overall. And frequently the only way to know for sure is to buy the kits, many of which are both old and expensive (due to scarcity, not quality).

Sigh...

I'll eventually get there, but I think I'm going to have to accept a company where the only light is a slightly too big Locust and the scales are wonky across the board. I want to see the Unseen in the game, but I want some new, properly scaled Battletech model kits even more. Alas, it's never gonna happen.
 

Gronk311

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Getting back to the unseen....
It is my interpretation that the Warhammer and Marauder- wich were promised in the kickstarter- May be coming out via a free update patch, but not anytime soon. The remaining unseen are fair game, but will take longer and probably be a paid DLC. And unless PGI decides to add the missing unseen to MWO/MW5, HBS will need to model them in house. That would increase the wait quite a bit.

Does this seem like a reasonable series of deductions to anyone else?
 

stjobe

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According to Sarna the Archer has had a production run of about 100,000 over 300 years. Assuming similar production rates or more for lighter chassis (maybe 4:3:2:1 for L:M:H:A) that's millions of mechs produced over the same period. I don't think most people realize just how devastating the 1st and 2nd Succession wars were.

Do you have any numbers on the total numbers of mechs produced?
No, there's (intentionally, I'd say) not enough information published to even make an educated guess about that. There's also no connection between 'Mech size and factory production rates - an assault 'Mech factory could churn out more 'Mechs per year than a light 'Mech factory, for example - and factories have come and gone (remember, much of the first and second Succession Wars specifically targeted research and production facilities).
 

Gronk311

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No, there's (intentionally, I'd say) not enough information published to even make an educated guess about that. There's also no connection between 'Mech size and factory production rates - an assault 'Mech factory could churn out more 'Mechs per year than a light 'Mech factory, for example - and factories have come and gone (remember, much of the first and second Succession Wars specifically targeted research and production facilities).

If you dig into Sarna, it might be possible to get a reasonable number of mech production facilities, but most of those are not running at full or peak production.

Coventry, Herphestus 2, Luthian and New Avlon all have major factories that have maintained mostly steady production, while some mechs only get replacement parts or very low production rates. The Thug, for example is stated to be produced at a rate of 12 per year. I would guess the Mechs with the most new units per year are:

Lights- wasp/stinger both are still produced throughout the inner sphere
Mediums - Enforcer, new Avlon primarily
Heavy - Dragon, Luthian, as well as three other plants in the combine
Assault- Zeus, Herpsetus 2
 

Captain Slide

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No, there's (intentionally, I'd say) not enough information published to even make an educated guess about that. There's also no connection between 'Mech size and factory production rates - an assault 'Mech factory could churn out more 'Mechs per year than a light 'Mech factory, for example - and factories have come and gone (remember, much of the first and second Succession Wars specifically targeted research and production facilities).

Thanks, was hoping the TRO's might have had more info than Sarna.

Make me wonder just how much the Clans have in storage in various places. When Kerensky left with 80% of the SLDF, some 3 million people, thats a lot of Jumpships, dropships and mechs.
 

scJazz

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Xotl over on the CGL forums once internally produced the number of mechs of each type by faction. He never released his info into the wild though. He used it to generate era appropriate RAT tables.
 

Kereminde

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Xotl over on the CGL forums once internally produced the number of mechs of each type by faction. He never released his info into the wild though. He used it to generate era appropriate RAT tables.

I use those tables. Although, those numbers also are still a "best guess" and don't take into account any information which isn't in the open (like secret ComStar facilities which definitely do not exist and are not making 'Mechs on Mars).
 

scJazz

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I use those tables. Although, those numbers also are still a "best guess" and don't take into account any information which isn't in the open (like secret ComStar facilities which definitely do not exist and are not making 'Mechs on Mars).
Fair point... just saying Xotl knows better than any human alive just how many mechs exist in any Era and the XOTL rat tables are the product of that knowledge.
 

FireStoat

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Going with the OP's original topic, I had a lot of fun watching the presentation. The game demo was funny, and it was great to see the release of the first DLC for Battletech working with amazingly few bugs or issues. It was also heartening to hear the words of dedication to the future of the product, and the answer to the Unseen question delivered in such a hilarious fashion. I think Mitch and Jordan know exactly how big an issue that was for the older fans of the game.

Going only slightly off topic, I think Catalyst stole the show with what they delivered in the brief span of time they were given. The team representing the company just delivered the goods, every box checked on the list. The news of the future of the novels as well as the advancement of the timeline for the game out of the Dark Ages era was really satisfying to hear. I'm just happy to see that Battletech in all formats is making a tremendous resurgence in popularity. I'm grateful this work is translating over back to HBS for future content and projects too.
 

Brother Diogenes

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Plus.....If you get a reinforced lance of the Blue Stinger, Red Stinger, Green Stinger , Pink Stinger and Yellow Stinger, can they not combine on the battlefield into a 100 ton MegaStinger?

No?.......okay, maybe that was another thing I was thinking of.....:confused:
I'm sure the Blakists tried that at some point. They clearly had no problem making up their own rulesets.
 

Havamal

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I agree on all of these. Valkyrie's, Javelins, Stingers, Wasps.....all icons of the early days of BattleTech that we'd like to see there just 'cause.......

Plus.....If you get a reinforced lance of the Blue Stinger, Red Stinger, Green Stinger , Pink Stinger and Yellow Stinger, can they not combine on the battlefield into a 100 ton MegaStinger?

No?.......okay, maybe that was another thing I was thinking of.....:confused:
I'm sure the Blakists tried that at some point. They clearly had no problem making up their own rulesets.
"Blue Stinger has shot the food." :rolleyes:
 

TripleStrengthMisnomer

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I'm sure the Blakists tried that at some point. They clearly had no problem making up their own rulesets.
Hmm....yes..."MasterStinger" with retractable hand stingers...and painted white of course because they accidentally nuked the tinting factory...darned Blakists...

Do we want to reprise them?
I mean, not even the Atlas in cover with brace and bulwark is going to eat a thermonuclear detonation.

Ah.....probably....it's lore..and canon...
 

Prussian Havoc

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I dont know about all, but we'll see. :)
I know everyone will WANT all of them, me too.

I especially would like;

Allow me to add my favorite of the soon-to-be-HBSeen:

82B6F996-C836-467F-BC0D-6CD101DBBC53.png
(*my ever-appreciative thanks to @SpOoKy777 for the above Work of MechArt / DeviantArt / Patreon)

Didn't Defiance try that in 2755? Only they used the Alabaster Stinger, Teal Stinger, Lemon Stinger, Azure Stinger, and Slate Stinger I think. And then called it not MegaStinger but something with the initials of the colours... ;)

Edit: Seriously though, according to lore, the Phoenix Hawk is an up-tonned Stinger:

"The 'Mech began life when Orguss Industries realized that it could reinforce the Stinger chassis to create a larger version, one with the same speed and maneuverability as the Stinger but with superior armor, firepower and electronics."
- sarna.net entry for Phoenix Hawk
To me, the Stinger, Phoenix Hawk family is completed with the inclusion of the Crusader, all three bore a striking resemblance.

But....but...doh!.... flabbergasted!.... sacrilege sir! Sacrilege!!!!!...there are no words.....:eek:;)

Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp,
Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp, Stinger, Wasp... there is a deep and abiding OCD imperative that just needs to see the Stinger and Wasp added to BATTLETECH.

I understand that MWO can get along just fine without them, but when I am running around HBS’s (and now Lore’s) Rimward Periphery and there is not a single Stinger it Wasp in sight... it just doesn’t feel right.

There is a level of BattleTech authenticity that will after angelic-fashion, descend upon BATTLETECH if the Stinger and Wasp are ever added to the game... at least for me, anyways. : )

Getting back to the unseen....
It is my interpretation that the Warhammer and Marauder- wich were promised in the kickstarter- May be coming out via a free update patch, but not anytime soon. The remaining unseen are fair game, but will take longer and probably be a paid DLC. And unless PGI decides to add the missing unseen to MWO/MW5, HBS will need to model them in house. That would increase the wait quite a bit.

Does this seem like a reasonable series of deductions to anyone else?
With Marco onboard, any future HBS-originated Mechs will no doubt in my mind, be TOP-NOTCH and must have’s in my BATTLETECH. : )

And yes, Insee the situation with regard to updates vice expansion running the same way. Of course we may end up being mistaken, but that is alright too...



To borrow and rift from @DropShadow, “The BATTLETECH must flow!!!”

(And yes, Mike has mentioned Frank Herbert’s DUNE as a source of inspiration for him when working on BATTLETECH. :bow: )

: )
 

Havamal

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