Having trouble diplo-annexing Castile as Aragon

[unmerged(9222)]

OK, I've covered the basics. I have an RM, alliance, +200 relations, nobody's at war, and we're both Catholic. And neither of us is already a vassal of anybody else.

I also noticed in the manual that I can't have fewer provinces than the vassallee (how's that for a naughty-sounding EU2 term?). I have 14 to Castile's 12. I've annexed Gibraltar, Languedoc, Limousin, and Maine, while Castile has annexed Granada and Provence. It's only 1437, so they can't have already explored and colonized anything yet.

After waiting a year for him to end his war with Scotland, I figure this is finally my chance to attempt a diplo-annex (and probably fail, but I gotta try). I can't see any reason not to be able to offer vassalization, yet it is still grayed out (no diplomats en route, other diplo options are available). And here's the kicker. A week later he offers to vassalize me! What's up with that? Is there some other undocumented factor involved that I'm missing? I mean, I could understand if he just refused, but I don't even get the option, and I am bigger than him, I have more VPs, he does have more troops, but my army's not too shabby either. My diplo skills are yellow (5 or 6). I thought that low diplo skills would hurt my chances of success, but I should still be allowed to make the attempt.

Is there anyone wiser and more experienced than I that can shed some light on my dilemma? Any clues would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Castellon]

First you mention Diploannex then Vassalize. I assume you are trying to Vassalize since you mention you have a RM. You are in the SAME alliance right, I ask because you needed to wait for him to go to peace with Scotland.

 

[unmerged(9222)]

Yes, sorry, I meant diplo-vassalize. But my ultimate goal is of course to diploannex prior to 1476, BB or no BB.

And we are indeed in the same alliance (along with Portugal). I took a separate peace offer since it was silly to stay at war with a country half a continent away. It took the silly Castilians another year or so to figure that out.

 

[kurtbrian]

are you sure that you are the biggest?

Castille might have conquered some scottish provinces or some african ones.

It sounds as if that is your problem since castille asked you to be a vassal and you couldn't

 

[Baron Jukaga]

When you're that close in provinces (14 to 12 you said) it's not enough of a 'buffer' to keep you from getting asked (t the conditions you described) to be vassilized. You're both rather large at your respective sizes, so I would suggest getting another 6 or so. Once you have a clear territorial advantage over him, he won't ask anymore and you will have a much better chance of sucess.

Or you could engineer a war and seize most of his provinces, diplo-vassilize the rump, spend a good amount of dough to be friends again, ally with again, wait another 20 or so years and diplo-annex the castilian shadow.

 

[unmerged(9222)]

Not that I can see. He didn't get any Scottish provinces, nor any on the Barbary coast. Portugal did get Tangiers, but lost it a couple years later to revolts. Unless he's made it down to Songhai or Mali (I can't see anything past the Canaries), he can't have anything in Africa. And there's nothing in the history log to indicate that he did.

 

[unmerged(9222)]

I think it's too late to go the force-vassalize route. I'd take such a huge stab hit from the RM, high relations, alliance, co-religion, and lack of CB that I'd probably lose the war. And unless I'm wrong, I have to own Madrid by 1476 in order to become Spain. As it is I have to burn a couple more diplomats just to back the 30 relation points I just lost.

The 'buffer' thing might explain why he can still ask me, but I don't get why I can't ask him.

I'll have to see if I can get a bigger territory advantage. Hopefully I can diploannex Brittany first (that's why I went for Maine in the first place). Either that or take some lousy provinces from Algiers, Fez, or Tunisia.

 

[Baron Jukaga]

Just for giggles I conquered Castille as Aragon in the last few hours. Took about until 1427 to finally capture all his provinces, then at least 15 diplomats before he finally agreed to give up everything other than Castille. Immediately after the war, I DOW again, take the stab hit and force annex. Portugal did me the ffavor of dowing me soon after, giving me their two mainland provs other than Tago. Now England keeps picking on me, with no time to rebuild my navy after the castille war, england is running rampant around the med, seizing my precious islands. Then France joins in for fun, while still fighting England. With both their sets of allies and me fighting, I bet Iberia is coated in blood from one end to the other. So watch out all you Aragon-cum-Spainers out there, Europe doesn't like it when you act like such a badboy. Stab -1 never looked so good.

 

[unmerged(9599)]

Hey total loss is Castille the leader of the Aliance because I have noticed that if they lead aliance you can not Vassalize them.

 

[unmerged(9563)]

Maybe you can't annex them because their a gold sheild....

 

[unmerged(8303)]

I thought that was no longer a problem in EU2.

 

[BiB]

It isn't.

 

[unmerged(9222)]

Originally posted by náraiC
Hey total loss is Castille the leader of the Aliance because I have noticed that if they lead aliance you can not Vassalize them.

This one had me going for a minute and I thought it might be the answer. I started it right at the beginning of the game, so I didn't remember who initiated it. Alas, I checked and I am indeed the alliance leader. At least I'm listed first in the ledger and also under Portugal and Brittany's diplo displays. And I do remember that at one time I had a temporary CB on them and had the option to ban them, so I must be the alliance leader.

Meanwhile I'm trying to get a bigger province advantage. I've now inherited Naples, and will try to diploannex Brittany in 1446 and then see if I can vassalize Castile. 30 years of Castile as a vassal would be nice, but I'll take what I can get.

Right now I'm keeping relations at 185 so they don't try to vassalize me again and drop relations by 30 again. Of course, they might refuse the first couple attempts, so I'll have to keep sending letters. I just hope I have enough time. Otherwise I'll restart and go the BB way. I don't really want to play 350 years as Aragon with no events or leaders.

 

[unmerged(9222)]

Well I don't know why, but it seems to be working now. Castile got into a war with Navarra, out of which I got Bearn and he got 6d, which was nice because I have no leaders and he didn't steal my siege. Also Provence revolted, and I may get that by defection sometime soon.

So with 17 provinces to his 12, I can now offer vassalization. Of course, he's refused me twice. I don't mind that, that's part of the game. It was just frustrating when I didn't even get the option to try. Still, with 4 diplomats a year I figure I'll get at least one chance per year as long as we're at peace. Eventually he'll have to submit, but I'm still racing the clock because I still have to wait the minimum 10 years then go through however many attempts it'll take to diploannex, spending at least 3-5 diplomats for each try.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, but I still don't know what was stopping me. My hunch is that size isn't strictly by province count. But I don't know what it could be. It's not population, I've got him beat 276045 to 203276. It might be related to tax income or production. We're probably pretty close on tax income, but with Toledo he probably has me beat on production. Some of that is hard to tell, since Castile was the shield I bumped to choose Aragon, so none of his stuff shows up on my ledger. For now, I'm just going to write it off to ghosts in the machine, and hope nothing like it happens again.