Having an issue with a Personal Union as Austria

[Lindorn]

Hey dudes

I am having an annoying issue right now as Austria

I took the offered mission to "conquer a weakened Hungary" - which gave me a CB on them to form a personal union. I have done so twice now and every time without fail Hungary breaks it within a couple of years. "the traitorous nobles have elected their own king"

I'm not sure why this is happening, and it's scary because not-only am I wasting a ton of time (by the inevitable delay of the 50 year timeline to integrate them through PU), but I'm also getting a ton of AE every time I re-conquer them. I'm wondering if you guys have any idea why this is happening or can help me out.

Hungary is a noble republic, not sure if that has anything to do with it.

 

[crisrko]

is your prestige low? did you maintain good relations?

 

[anubisfike]

You're not supposed to be able to have a noble republic in a PU. If anything they're just electing a new king, thus breaking the PU.

 

[grisamentum]

The problem is that he didn't maintain good relations. Has nothing to do with noble republics or anything.

PUs through war are pretty hard to do properly right now. You have to max relations BEFORE you attack, and then you have to immediately gift them money and keep pumping relations and have already finished Religious ideas. It helps if you let the war go on a long time so that some of the negative modifiers from the beginning will tick down.

But if you Claim Throne CB someone, and then attack to force a PU, and then lose it? Good luck, you'll never be able to maintain the PU ever again. The huge AE hit from enforcing a PU plus the claiming throne malus plus you only have 10 years to redo the PU once you lose it? Never going to happen.

 

[anubisfike]

The problem is that he didn't maintain good relations. Has nothing to do with noble republics or anything.

How are you able to have a noble republic in a PU? Why would they not just elect a new king, even in history or in the actual game? I'm almost entirely sure you playing as a noble republic makes it impossible to have a PU so why would it work the other way around?

 

[rekindledflame]

The mission doesn't check for Hungary's government type so you can actually get it no matter what government they are. However, it will break on dynasty change (election) if they are a republic as in this case. Not sure if it would count as a bug or not, but the check should probably be implemented, but none of them currently include such a check as far as I'm aware.

 

[grisamentum]

Everyone in this thread is getting confused by the flavor text "the traitorous nobles have elected their own king." That does not mean Hungary had a Noble Republic. It means Hungary didn't like you when your ruler died so they picked a king. It ALWAYS says that when you lose a PU.

 

[anubisfike]

Everyone in this thread is getting confused by the flavor text "the traitorous nobles have elected their own king." That does not mean Hungary had a Noble Republic. It means Hungary didn't like you when your ruler died so they picked a king. It ALWAYS says that when you lose a PU.

Hungary is a noble republic, not sure if that has anything to do with it.

What is reading???

 

[Jia Xu]

Yeah, royal marriages can end in some strange ways when noble republics are involved. You could take the diplomatic idea set to get Revolution & Counter, so you can force them back into monarchy, I guess. Although you'd need a second war to force the PU again, and your PU restoration CB might expire if you don't break a truce to use it.

 

[grisamentum]

What is reading???

Yes, what IS reading?

Hungary had a Noble Republic, but as I said, the words "the traitorous nobles have elected their own king" is what it ALWAYS says when a PU ends. For example, start a game as Denmark and ruin your PU with Sweden on purpose. When your ruler dies and the PU ends, Sweden will be come free and it will say "the traitorous nobles have elected their own king."

 

[anubisfike]

Yes, what IS reading?

Hungary had a Noble Republic, but as I said, the words "the traitorous nobles have elected their own king" is what it ALWAYS says when a PU ends. For example, start a game as Denmark and ruin your PU with Sweden on purpose. When your ruler dies and the PU ends, Sweden will be come free and it will say "the traitorous nobles have elected their own king."

No one is getting confused by the text. Everyone else but you managed to pick up on the fact that Hungary has a noble republic and is thus not able to be part of a PU. Whenever their next election is due it will automatically be broken.

 

[grisamentum]

No one is getting confused by the text. Everyone else but you managed to pick up on the fact that Hungary has a noble republic and is thus not able to be part of a PU. Whenever their next election is due it will automatically be broken.

Of course they are able to be part of a PU. There has to be a PU before it can get broken, of course.

 

[anubisfike]

Of course they are able to be part of a PU. There has to be a PU before it can get broken, of course.

You're not really understanding anything, are you? Yes they can technically be part of a PU but it will inevitably end very shortly after it was established because they still have elections. This is exactly what the OP was complaining about.

 

[grisamentum]

You're not really understanding anything, are you? Yes they can technically be part of a PU but it will inevitably end very shortly after it was established because they still have elections. This is exactly what the OP was complaining about.

See, when you use words, those words have actual meanings that are different from other meanings. So when you say "not able to be part of a PU" that is not the same thing as "they can be part of a PU but it will break on the next election."

Once again, the irony here is you accusing me of not understanding, when you're the one who's being incredibly imprecise and wrong.

 

[anubisfike]

See, when you use words, those words have actual meanings that are different from other meanings. So when you say "not able to be part of a PU" that is not the same thing as "they can be part of a PU but it will break on the next election."

Once again, the irony here is you accusing me of not understanding, when you're the one who's being incredibly imprecise and wrong.

Except they aren't actually able to be part of a PU and the only reason Hungary in this case can be is because of a poorly coded Austria-specific mission that doesn't take into account the fact that they have an incompatible government type. If you write a mission that always fires telling you to PU a nation that would under no circumstance be able to be PU'd normally that doesn't mean they are actually able to be in a PU.

Here's the code for you:

noble_republic = {
	[B]republic = yes[/B]
	
	valid_for_new_country = yes
	
	duration = 8

	republican_name = yes
	
	ai_will_do = {
		factor = 0
	}

	#bonus
	tolerance_heretic = 1
	tolerance_heathen = 1
	land_morale = 0.1
}

See the highlighted part there that says republic? That means they aren't ever supposed to be able to be in a PU.

The fact that you're still arguing about this makes me unsettled to say the least.

 

[grisamentum]

No, it doesn't mean that at all. As he already said he's also able to use restoration of union on them. (What is reading, again?)

This means that ANY country can force a PU on to a Noble Republic, not just Austria because of "a poorly coded Austria-specific mission that doesn't take into account the fact that they have an incompatible government type." If you have a PU over a country, and peasant rebels force it to become a noble republic, you'll still be able to use restoration of union on it.

What I find unsettling is that you decided to open this debate with a personal attack and now that you've realized you were spouting imprecise bullshit the whole time, you can't back down.

 

[anubisfike]

No, it doesn't mean that at all. As he already said he's also able to use restoration of union on them. (What is reading, again?)

Yeah that's actually exactly what it means. It's a flaw within the game that allows it to happen when it shouldn't be possible in the first place. It's a triggered CB which means you'll get it regardless of anything else, such as the eligibility of the target to actually remain in a PU, as long as you met the initial criteria.

This means that ANY country can force a PU on to a Noble Republic, not just Austria because of "a poorly coded Austria-specific mission that doesn't take into account the fact that they have an incompatible government type." If you have a PU over a country, and peasant rebels force it to become a noble republic, you'll still be able to use restoration of union on it.

Again this doesn't mean it's supposed to happen. It's an oversight and should be reported as a bug if it hasn't already been done.

What I find unsettling is that you decided to open this debate with a personal attack and now that you've realized you were spouting imprecise bullshit the whole time, you can't back down.

You choose to see it as imprecise because you were wrong and desperately try to find something that validates your point of view. You said, out of the blue, that people were only talking about noble republics because of the text of the message you get when a PU ends but failed to simply read the first post that says Hungary was actually a noble republic that under no normal circumstance would be able to get put in a PU.

 

[The Blood Eagle]

Ease up there, fellas.

 

[grisamentum]

Yeah that's actually exactly what it means. It's a flaw within the game that allows it to happen when it shouldn't be possible in the first place. It's a triggered CB which means you'll get it regardless of anything else, such as the eligibility of the target to actually remain in a PU, as long as you met the initial criteria.



Again this doesn't mean it's supposed to happen. It's an oversight and should be reported as a bug if it hasn't already been done.



You choose to see it as imprecise because you were wrong and desperately try to find something that validates your point of view. You said, out of the blue, that people were only talking about noble republics because of the text of the message you get when a PU ends but failed to simply read the first post that says Hungary was actually a noble republic that under no normal circumstance would be able to get put in a PU.

No, I said that people were conflating the text of the election that occurs on PU break with whether or not Hungary was a Noble Republic. That text occurs regardless of whether a country is a Noble Republic.

 

[anubisfike]

No, I said that people were conflating the text of the election that occurs on PU break with whether or not Hungary was a Noble Republic. That text occurs regardless of whether a country is a Noble Republic.

But that's entirely irrelevant since we already knew from the start that Hungary was, in fact, a noble republic.