Has to be materialist for AI rights...

[arctvrvs]

Hello everyone.
So I was playing fanatic xenophile/pacifist empire. Went very well, I enjoy a lot the new expansion.
I met the data of an old race, put them into synth bodies, they colonized a world for me, nice guys.

then I discovered artificial intelligence and synths.
And I could not give them rights (contrary to before). Not only does it feel out of place for my empire, my friends that settled a world for me also got enslaved.
And for some reason, the xenophile faction of my empire consider them as enslaved aliens and is unhappy.

AI rights should probably be available for all but spiritualist empire.

 

[Mrakvampire]

Yes, I think at least some rights should be available.

 

[Slynx]

same with slaves. even on a basic level (like it was with non-collectivist pre-1.4)

 

[henzington]

The idea is to make ethos have more gameplay meaning just like only xenophobic can have full slavery.

 

[Alblaka]

And I could not give them rights (contrary to before). Not only does it feel out of place for my empire, my friends that settled a world for me also got enslaved.
And for some reason, the xenophile faction of my empire consider them as enslaved aliens and is unhappy.

I would argue that only Materialist being able to give Synth Full Citizenship is an acceptable design choice. Means non-Materialist empires going for robots have to either keep them to Droid level, or deal with the Unrest.

However, in that case Egalitarian and Xenophile factions should not perceive them as an issue.
Which is an oversight needing an fix in either direction.

 

[Slynx]

The idea is to make ethos have more gameplay meaning just like only xenophobic can have full slavery.

yet slavery leads to authoritarism. and i were not talking about full slavery.
i said "basic level" specifically because of it. if you want more - embrace xenophobea or authoritarism

 

[arctvrvs]

I would argue that only Materialist being able to give Synth Full Citizenship is an acceptable design choice. Means non-Materialist empires going for robots have to either keep them to Droid level, or deal with the Unrest.

However, in that case Egalitarian and Xenophile factions should not perceive them as an issue.
Which is an oversight needing an fix in either direction.

still make no sense to have put an old race into synth bodies just to enslave them later ^^'

 

[Alblaka]

still make no sense to have put an old race into synth bodies just to enslave them later ^^'

Wait, wasn't Synthetic Ascension supposed to automatically force Citizen Rights to the new Synth Race?
That isn't working either?

Geez...

 

[Teutonizer]

Wait, wasn't Synthetic Ascension supposed to automatically force Citizen Rights to the new Synth Race?
That isn't working either?

Geez...

It's still working

 

[arctvrvs]

Wait, wasn't Synthetic Ascension supposed to automatically force Citizen Rights to the new Synth Race?
That isn't working either?

Geez...

no, I had an anomaly where you download an ancient race. I offered them synth bodies. And then they ended up slaves... Not really a nice welcome.

 

[Slynx]

Not really a nice welcome.

why? you saved them and now they are repaying their debt

added: now i wanna find Limbo as a hivemind

 

[Alblaka]

no, I had an anomaly where you download an ancient race. I offered them synth bodies. And then they ended up slaves... Not really a nice welcome.

Ah, now, that's completely reasonable, from a non-Materialist point of view.
A dick move, but fair gameplay design. Arguably, there should be an option of becoming Materialist during that event.

 

[Mrakvampire]

Ah, now, that's completely reasonable, from a non-Materialist point of view.
A dick move, but fair gameplay design. Arguably, there should be an option of becoming Materialist during that event.

No it is not from egalitarian of xenophile point of view. Ok, maybe spiritualists view it as reasonable, but non-spiritualist egalitarians for example should view this as an atrocity.

 

[Alblaka]

No it is not from egalitarian of xenophile point of view. Ok, maybe spiritualists view it as reasonable, but non-spiritualist egalitarians for example should view this as an atrocity.

That's debateable.

Afaik, the Stellaris background of ethics here is
Spiritualists see robots as abonimations.
Neutrals see robots as machines.
Materialists see robots as sentient beings.

Therefore, Neutral (aka non-spiritual and non-materialist) Egalitarians should NOT complain about lacking robot rights, because to them robots are still not sentient beings, as that belief is only present under Materialism.

Same applies (or well, is bugged and supposed to be fixed in 1.5.1/2) to Egalitarian-Xenophobe: Egalitarians do NOT complain about enslaved aliens, because aliens, under Xenophobe ethics, are not 'beings worth of egalitarian consideration'.

 

[Mrakvampire]

That's debateable.

Afaik, the Stellaris background of ethics here is
Spiritualists see robots as abonimations.
Neutrals see robots as machines.
Materialists see robots as sentient beings.

That is true for synthetics that were created. But this event implies that your society fully understands that these are not robots or AI, these are xenos that just uploaded their minds to machines. There is a difference, I think.

 

[Slynx]

There is a difference, I think.

there isn't. after all they are still droids. and your population doesn't know that they are different. only you(player\ruler) and scientist know about it

 

[Mrakvampire]

there isn't. after all they are still droids. and your population doesn't know that they are different. only you(player\ruler) and scientist know about it

Any issues telling your own people that they are different?
I don't understand your logic.

 

[Slynx]

Any issues telling your own people that they are different?

will they believe you? are you sure it will not cause panic? should anyone care?

I don't understand your logic.

if you insert a flash drive into the pc and download the data...it'll sill be a pc. not a sentient race. same with droids.

added: wait.. are you... a hamster?

 

[razaron]

Personally, I think The Flesh Is Weak + AI tech should unlock full citizen rights for non-Spiritualists. And possibly a caste system for Authoritarians.

That is true for synthetics that were created. But this event implies that your society fully understands that these are not robots or AI, these are xenos that just uploaded their minds to machines. There is a difference, I think.

Over time the devs will probably add different flavour text, choices for the different Ethos. Like pretty much every other event.

 

[The Founder]

If you want some Materialist Atraction, here are the values:
http://www.stellariswiki.com/Ethics_atraction

That Xenophiles Factions consider Robot Pop as "aliens" is propably a bug. Usually Robots are explicitly excluded with additional checks (is_robot_pop = no) but it might have been forgetten there.