Has the 'fabricate claim' action been nerfed?

[iniudan]

Damn the thought of spending 40 years with a 10 skill chancellor is giving me physical pain.

Not really in my case, but I usually almost never use my chancellor to fabricate claim outside of getting my first duchy. After that I rely on diplomacy, politic and warfare, for why have vassals when you can have a tributaries.

 

[jpinard]

Damn the thought of spending 40 years with a 10 skill chancellor is giving me physical pain.

Welcome to everything in Conclave. More pain, less fun.

 

[Brian Bóroimhe]

Quick update: after 66 years it has finally happened, the claim has been fabricated.

I happen to agree with jpinard, there should be a mechanic where the odds to successfully fabricate a claim increases after a while. If you're unlucky, as I have been, it can literally take generations to succeed. While it may project some realism, I feel that having to babysit your single county for 50+ years is getting old real fast. Maybe there should be a mechanic where fabricating claims is faster/more successful for those with a smaller demesne and slower once you grow to a certain size, but not make it impossible. In the end though, it's still luck of the draw.

The best is when you finally get a claim fabricated after a decades long mission with a highly skilled (20+) Chancellor, and then your inconsiderate fuck of a ruler immediately up and dies... -.-

I haven't played much since conclave, but before it, the exact scenario mentioned above has happened multiple times, and more often than I care to recall I've had to wait 50+ years for incredibly skilled Chancellors to fabricate a claim.

That's why I more often use them in the ways that @heliostellar and @iniudan mention. Or just kissing the pope's arse along with my court chaplain so I can milk the bastard for cash. (Which, forgive the offtopic, is something that does seem harder to do than it was a few dlcs ago - though that could just be RNGesus punishing me for my heretical ways)

 

[jpinard]

Brian or Inuidan - would either of you care to expand on the methods of expanding (early French Catholic gameplay) outside of using marriage or Fabricated claims?

 

[Brian Bóroimhe]

Brian or Inuidan - would either of you care to expand on the methods of expanding (early French Catholic gameplay) outside of using marriage or Fabricated claims?

Well, don't neglect those, marriage (+tactical assassinations) is probably one of the best ways of acquiring vast tracts of land. Monopolise your duchy, so you control all the counties personally. Honestly once you have your full duchy then you should have enough troops to win most internal wars within your kingdom. If you're in southern France (someone recommended Toulouse, a recommendation I would repeat) then keep your eyes open for opportunistic holy war chances. Invite people with claims to land outside of yours and give them titles, then press their claims.

An iron grip on your own Duchy, a strong marriage alliance (ideally with chance for mutual inheritance) with the gascons/Duchy of Aquitaine or Poitou and a successful holy war for land in northern Spain and you're in a very strong position to become the king of Aquitaine and then your snowball will swiftly become an avalanche.

 

[Arkabeth]

It's always been a roll of the dice to say the least- you might get three in a row one generation and none for 50yrs in the next generation. Pretty much the only thing you can do is send and re-send your chancellor, since if he gets bribed he'll never give you the claim.

Does the game tell if your chancellor has been bribed, and if one chancellor has been bribed does it work to just send the same chancellor again (would have thought the bribe would still apply)?

I'm curious as I've been having some bad luck fabricating aswell lately and am curious about the mechanics behind.

For the record, tried fabricating some place for 13 years with 22 diplo, it's not that unlikely that it didn't succeed in that time, (calculated ish 75% to get it by that time with yearly of 11% chance).

 

[MichaelStakely]

I happen to agree with jpinard, there should be a mechanic where the odds to successfully fabricate a claim increases after a while.

I just wish you could use a favor to spike your chances of getting a claim if not guarantee it.

 

[The7Sins]

I had a couple weeks back 2 claims pressed in Ireland within a 1 year period. However I am still on 2.4.5 so if it has been nerfed with Conclave I am not affected.

 

[nkibilko]

It helps if you "reset" their mission every once in a while.... Call them back, then send them back immediately.

This works well for me.

Also, i cant remember where exactly i got the information, but im almost positive that if your chancellor gets bribed on a current mission he will NEVER fabricate a claim (chance goes to 0%), unless you reset him.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

This applies only if there's a sufficient amount of tries.
The problem of probability is that it's not certainty.

So, if there aren't "a sufficient amount of tries", then what's the probability of getting a succesful claim in 50 years with a 3.38% chance per year?

 

[Soylent Dave]

add_character_modifier = {
                name = bribed_by_noble_timer
                duration = 365
                hidden = yes
            }

Here's the relevant bit of code. If 'duration' is days(?), then it should apply the malus (i.e. stop your chancellor fabricating any claim) for a full year.

-

I tend to move my chancellors on if they haven't been successful after 5 years or so. I don't know if it helps, but it makes me feel like I'm in charge

 

[Soylent Dave]

So, if there aren't "a sufficient amount of tries", then what's the probability of getting a succesful claim in 50 years with a 3.38% chance per year?

The probability in a given year is 3.38%.

The probability of that not happening for 50 years in a row is 18%, which means you end up with an 82% chance of getting a successful claim somewhere in those 50 years

(so in 4 out of 5 50 year playthroughs, you could expect to get a successful claim)

 

[Republic of Mercury]

The probability in a given year is 3.38%.

The probability of that not happening for 50 years in a row is 18%, which means you end up with an 82% chance of getting a successful claim somewhere in those 50 years

(so in 4 out of 5 50 year playthroughs, you could expect to get a successful claim)

I know, I was asking @*Aqua* to explain how it would change anything if there were not, to use their words, "a sufficient amount of tries".

 

[Soylent Dave]

Ah sorry, missed that bit due to my obvious & in retrospect rather tragic excitement about doing some maths

 

[Bernard95]

Does the game tell if your chancellor has been bribed, and if one chancellor has been bribed does it work to just send the same chancellor again (would have thought the bribe would still apply)?

I'm curious as I've been having some bad luck fabricating aswell lately and am curious about the mechanics behind.

For the record, tried fabricating some place for 13 years with 22 diplo, it's not that unlikely that it didn't succeed in that time, (calculated ish 75% to get it by that time with yearly of 11% chance).

As far as I know, the game will not inform you at all which is why I tend to send and resend whenever I get the chance. Way back when they also used to say never have a content chancellor- otherwise he'll never fabricate, but I haven't heard that particular tidbit since SoA or RoI so I don't know if it's still a thing.

 

[psychoak]

I've had a just married in 16 year old 25 fail to fabricate for decades, die of old age, and be replaced by another one point lower, who then got me two duchy's inside 10 years. RNG's can be evil incarnate and make you curse the day you were born, or they can lube your neighbors up and give it to them real good...

 

[*Aqua*]

I know, I was asking @*Aqua* to explain how it would change anything if there were not, to use their words, "a sufficient amount of tries".

I just wanted to say that without enough dice rolls/tries/etc. you can't rely on a probability. If an event happening has the probability of 1% it doesn't mean that it's going to happen within the first 100 tries. In these 100 tries the event could happend 100 times or not at all.
But if you you throw the dice an infinite amount of times then the event will occure on average in one out of 100 times.

 

[Tapio]

There's a high chance of not hitting 3% in 40 years, but a low chance of not hitting 10%+ in the same time. So always use high skill chancellors.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

I just wanted to say that without enough dice rolls/tries/etc. you can't rely on a probability. If an event happening has the probability of 1% it doesn't mean that it's going to happen within the first 100 tries. In these 100 tries the event could happend 100 times or not at all.
But if you you throw the dice an infinite amount of times then the event will occure on average in one out of 100 times.

No-one said that it would happen in 50 years, we said the chance of it happening is 82%. And in your 1% example, no-one's saying that it will happen in 100 years, we're saying that the chance of it happening at least once is approximately 64%.

Ah sorry, missed that bit due to my obvious & in retrospect rather tragic excitement about doing some maths

Totally understandable. Maths is good.