Has something changed with Ming? Why arent they imploding?

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Daelh

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So usually you just need to beat them once and they'll implode. But this game (on 1.33) they have no rebels at all even with 0 mandate and Nomad Frontier disaster. I havent found anything about this in the changelogs however. It's my first time taking down Ming as Manchu but I've done it several times with other tags and they always implode after the first war. I still beat them comfortably but it will take a lot longer time this way unifying China because of one tag instead of 5-7 tags.

Nvm they collapse when I took the mandate. But damn, never seen Ming hang in there so many wars.

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Manwe_Sulimo

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The problem is that the unrest is too low for meaningful Rebels to spawn, 0 Mandate gives only +5 unrest, with the changes to Confucianism Mings unrest is a bit lower in 1.33, so outside massive War Exhaustion / Bancrupcy it is very unlikely that Rebels spawn, at least on Very Hard.
 
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GrandEurypterid

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Ye, the best way to destabilise Ming is to fight them asymmetrically after the Age of Discovery. My Phillipines campaign caused a superb Mingsplosion when I launched a naval blockade and took enough money for them to go into debt. Consider-

-Checking Ming's naval stats in the ledger. If you can beat them navally, a naval victory is very dangerous to Ming! One, they'll try to build their ships back up to fight you, which is a very significant economic cost- they build boats, you steal or sink them, they build more boats. Using transport ships and Marines is an excellent way to buff this strategy- if their main fleet lands in an unfortified province, or they build a ship in an unfortified province, you can send in the marines and occupy the land to force them into combat. Blockades also add War Score, War Exhaustion and Devastation, all of which help with beating them and their Mandate down.

-Running a defensive strategy rather hyperfocusing on trying to rush them. Some of Ming's biggest strengths are defensive- national ideas with fort maintenance, garrison size and fort defense, possible attrition from the Great Wall of China monument, plus any relevant ideas they take- so you're going to be at a disadvantage sieging down their forts. Instead, a wall of forts can make them split up. Find provinces near your border that you'll want to fight in (plains with minimal supply limit make sense for a horde), build the max fort level and ramparts, place a Defence Edict on the state, and- if you can afford to be frugal with government capacity and admin power- expand your infrastructure if it's above 15 development in order to maximise your Defensiveness. The longer it takes for them to siege you, the better- flank to isolated siege stacks' escape routes to crush them, then return behind your wall of forts (two lines should usually be enough) and find the next-best enemy position to attack. In the meantime, the Ramparts' bonus attrition (as well as any other attrition sources, like supply limits, or Defensive Ideas) will be steadily ratcheting up Ming's War Exhaustion.

If you manage to defeat Ming on land, excellent! If not, then as long as you're not completely outmatched, you should be able to grind Ming down until they'll give you lots of cash in return for buggering off. If you've done it right, then they've wasted a whole bunch of money on boats or attrition, they've gained a lot of war exhaustion from blockades and attrition, and the additional cost of giving you lots of money will push them over into debt. Then, the combination of War Exhaustion and debt (plus a small amount of Devastation) should hurt them enough for a nice, juicy Crisis of the Ming Dynasty that results in the total detonation of Ming China!
 
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AvengedK1ng

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The problem is that the unrest is too low for meaningful Rebels to spawn, 0 Mandate gives only +5 unrest, with the changes to Confucianism Mings unrest is a bit lower in 1.33, so outside massive War Exhaustion / Bancrupcy it is very unlikely that Rebels spawn, at least on Very Hard.
Maybe stop playing on very hard, its clearly not the default the game is based on
 
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Kanem Bornu

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I think they're more stable generally thanks to recent changes, but on the other hand can quickly get railroaded into Mingsplosion via the Crisis of the Ming Dynasty disaster. I see them fall to that disaster every campaign I've done with or without my intervention both in the live version and when I was on 1.33 beta branch except for the one time I played Manchu, oddly enough.
 

Korsjan Rīkis

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Also, besides the Ming explosion, there's a big problem with OP Shun. In my current Dai Viet campaign Manchu grew pretty strong, they had most of Manchuria and even parts of Mongolia, but they had no chances against Shun and they ended up as their OPM vassal. But seeing that you have taken most of Shun's to-be-lands, you won't have that problem here, at least.
 

Kapi96

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They explode because of the disasters. You're too early for the Crisis of the Ming dynasty disaster (can't happen during the first age) and you've probably given them immunity to the horde disaster by having a truce with them. Either wait for the age to tick over, or drag your war with them out a bit longer so the horde disaster can trigger before you get a truce.
 
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