has anybody else had such success with old BBs?

[Smileyou]

just writing to see if this is a fluke or what).. playing with USSR, and had an idea to wage war on
JAP as soon as possible(1937,june-august) and drag the war until 1941 with GER, anyway, long
story short, i was in a bind, how do i win naval battles with my puny navy compared to JAP one?
Well bravely i put all my 3 BBs and 1CA together, put all my CL,DD together, made 1 fleet out of
this and went for a blitz with my troops and MOT to take Korea, after Korea was taken i put my INT
planes in Pusan region so i could protect my Navy that would more or less patrol on 2 provinces just
south of Korea(Tsushima strait and some other province)..

This fleet of mine was acting like a magnet for IJN that went after it time and time again, of course
JAP have carriers but with my INT they were totally negated, so to my amazement my OLD, really old
i think USSR BBs are like 1918 tech, were demolishing stuff left and right, .. even as IJN started sending
more BBs into the fight it didn't work as i would again win the air war and do some minor disorg to their
BBs and it was tremendous..

What i'm saying is, forget research, Techs only matter so much, strategy and using terrain properly is much
more important.. even if this would be MP game it would still be relevant strategy, as long as you can provide
Cover over your fleet your old BB's can do tremendous damage..

so, now its 1943, i transferred to solely CV fleets, have 4 CTF fleets with 3-4 CVs in each of them, and 1 single
SAG from d start of the game (Pananin naval commander went from level whatever his starting level was 2,3?, to
level 9 in a matter of 6 months).. He is duking it out with UK,France,US..and winning)lol..of course i employ him
close to Land Cover to protect against enemy CAGs..

its just amazing how useful even 1918 BBs can be.. so people stop complaining about your luxury state of the art
1936 BBs, ..what would i as a USSR want to start with them ..lol..

 

[Chaffers]

Did something similar once partly as a way of getting air combat experience and levelling my CAS and MRs.Doctrines work wonders with BBs, even late model ones are useless but 1918 tech still works fine as long as you concentrate on the doctrines.

Was a very interesting game as UK DOWd me in 1941 whilst Germany stayed out of things and just supplied Japan.

 

[KevinG]

What i'm saying is, forget research, Techs only matter so much, strategy and using terrain properly is much
more important.. even if this would be MP game it would still be relevant strategy, as long as you can provide
Cover over your fleet your old BB's can do tremendous damage..

What do you think would happen if you went up against an equal fleet with the same # of ship types, but all with higher tech? And people do group up their navies into doomstacks in MP games and make use of older ships as support.

 

[Secret Master]

of course i employ him
close to Land Cover to protect against enemy CAGs..

Who needs capital ships at all if you are going to only fight near land?

I've demonstrated that land based air generally trumps everything related to surface combat more than once. Hell, I've suckered British ASW fleets into combats with my submarines near my airfields and watched those fancy pants DDs with their ASDIC and Hedgehogs get wiped out. It's even more fun to do with the Italians and the King George V battleships in the Med.

In fact, I bet I could build a pure DD fleet and use land based air to trash the USN. Sure, I may lose some, but who cares when Enterprise, Wasp, and Iowa at the bottom of the Atlantic?

 

[marxianTJ]

I've sent the Red Banner Baltic fleet out to sea against Germany, and with only 2 DDs as escorts and no air cover, the ol' gagnuts won't go down, and actually dealt damage to the German fleet (no sinkings) but they did get some convoys and submarines in the mean time lol.

Those old gagnut battleships have some really great stories about them.

The Paris Commune (black sea fleet) recorded one of the first kills of the war by shooting down a German bomber on the first night of the war.

The Marat (baltic fleet) was blown in the half by two 500 KG bombs, one hitting its forward magazine, raised, outfitted with 2 granite slabs from the harbor for armor and surrounded in concrete - and continued the war as a stationary battery firing over 2,000 shells on the Germans from its position during the Siege of Leningrad.

(this photograph is from prior to the addition of the special granite slabs.

Lastly, a 4th Gagnut class hull existed (the ship it originally belonged to was gutted by fire during the revolution) and it was flipped over and turned into a bomb shelter - the hull sustained over 300 direct hits from German bombers without giving way, protecting hundreds of civilians hidden inside.

 

[Smileyou]

yup great stories of the Gagnut class BBs, .. tnx for the share @marxianTJ..

and i didn't even researched the doctrines)lol..left it where they were.. but of course as
Secret master explains if you use your ships even obsolete ones near your coast to
pin down the enemy and then wipe it with air force it works..but with me the wiping was
still done by my old trusted BBs..planes were only to provide cover from enemy CAGs,
or use of my NAVs to harras d enemy in case i'm outnumbered and i pull my SAG out.

 

[gregor_mendel]

I wonder though what would have happened had your naval battles occurred later in the war, '43-'45, rather than '37. Doctrines' effects are no longer non-negligible at that point.

Also, how are your air techs/doctrine? Surely that is the most important aspect of your strategy. Still not sure how you were sinking those Jap BBs though. Wouldn't the Jap BBs outrange those old Soviet ships, even at '37 tech/doctrine? Your INTs, with their low Sea Attack, couldn't be effecting them that much?

 

[BattleMoose]

Who needs capital ships at all if you are going to only fight near land?

Particularly as the USA, you have a lot of old BBs and are very much on the defensive (especially in MP games) from the start. There is a lot of defending of bases with airfields that needs doing. And the old battle wagons are very useful in this role.

In fact, I bet I could build a pure DD fleet and use land based air to trash the USN. Sure, I may lose some, but who cares when Enterprise, Wasp, and Iowa at the bottom of the Atlantic?

That's all fine and well until your DDs run into a fresh capital ship SAG group.

 

[Secret Master]

That's all fine and well until your DDs run into a fresh capital ship SAG group.

Wait, you think I can't defeat SAGs with sufficient land based air?

I haven't met too many things that can stand against land based air, except for CTFs with more aircraft on them.

I haven't tried it with 1936 or 1937, though. I suppose with really bad techs, they aircraft might not be able to inflict enough damage.

 

[BattleMoose]

Wait, you think I can't defeat SAGs with sufficient land based air?

If you have sufficient time, sure. But if I was your adversary that is something I will strive to avoid.

Assuming the context is that I am trying to invade one of your islands, I would have an invasion force of some ground forces, CTF's and SAGs. Really in such situations the ground forces are only there to force a naval battle. If one doesn't ensue, then the island is captured and all is fine and good. The CTFs will cover the invasion fleet, the SAG is well back out of range of land based air. If you choose to send in the DD fleet the capital SAG will look for contact with it. Of course a very great deal of other movements of major naval assets is going on and the naval game becomes really, who can commit the right assets against their enemies. You would be trying to hit the CVs with DDs and I would be trying to hit your DDs with the SAGs, and a mish mosh of everything else.

The point stands though, there will be a fresh SAG, out of range of your DD fleet and will only go in range of land based air when your DD fleet commits. Your window to strike it is however long it takes for the SAG to traverse 5(?) seazones.