Hardpoints on each chassis/variant, and inflation

[HonorKnight]

Since HBS BattleTech's models come from PGI's MWO, it's a common assumption that the final HBS hardpoints on each chassis will at least resemble those of MWO. So, below is a little chart of what MWO's hardpoints look like, along with the HBS hardpoints to compare the two.

Green and yellow both represent hardpoints which in the stock loadout contain what HBS would call "support" weapons, even though MWO doesn't have that concept. Green means every weapon in that slot is a support weapon, yellow means just 1 weapon in that slot is a support weapon.

Red represents HBS's hardpoint inflation or reduction relative to MWO.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Great graphic to track Hardpoint Inflation and BattleMech Homogenization... to determine if the extent of the former and if the later ever really becomes a thing. :bow:

 

[OathOfFealty]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a Quickdraw variant missing?

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a Quickdraw variant missing?

And a Locust...

Maybe even an Atlas II...

 

[Rabid]

I assume that the AWS-8Q's expected 6 ballistics hardpoints is a typo?

 

[Chaon]

I assume that the AWS-8Q's expected 6 ballistics hardpoints is a typo?

It's a new type of Awesome. {Sorry couldn't resist.}

 

[HonorKnight]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a Quickdraw variant missing?

And a Locust...

Maybe even an Atlas II...

Yes there are a half dozen or so missing because they didn't exist in https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

I don't play MWO myself to independently check if these variants are in it or what their hardpoints are, I only have that source to look to.

 

[HonorKnight]

I assume that the AWS-8Q's expected 6 ballistics hardpoints is a typo?

Fixed that

 

[OathOfFealty]

Yes there are a half dozen or so missing because they didn't exist in https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

I don't play MWO myself to independently check if these variants are in it or what their hardpoints are, I only have that source to look to.

Just thought it got forgotten. That's all.

 

[Rabid]

I'm sure you're on it but just for anyone else reading the most recent trailer revises the Blackjack's hardpoints to 2B 4E 2S

Which means that unless I'm mistaken the only additional "HBS inflation" hardpoints we have seen confirmed so far are energy and support - unless these are just outliers it seems that we don't have to worry about mechs losing their identities.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

The apparent removal of the Missile Hardpoints from the Blackjack would for me go a ways toward alleviating BattleMech Homogenization concerns (that many / nearly-all Mechs end up with at least one each Missile, Ballistic and Energy Hardpoint.)

If this holds, it will imo reinforce a BattleMech Variant's Core Identity.

 

[HonorKnight]

I'm sure you're on it but just for anyone else reading the most recent trailer revises the Blackjack's hardpoints to 2B 4E 2S

Which means that unless I'm mistaken the only additional "HBS inflation" hardpoints we have seen confirmed so far are energy and support - unless these are just outliers it seems that we don't have to worry about mechs losing their identities.

Updated

 

[Exemplar Voss]

Just noticed an error with the spider. The list has 1E, 1M for the center torso, but the stock spider has 2 medium lasers. Something is wonky there

 

[HonorKnight]

Just noticed an error with the spider. The list has 1E, 1M for the center torso, but the stock spider has 2 medium lasers. Something is wonky there

Weird, not sure where that came from. Fixed, though, thanks!

 

[Tryptic]

I will always miss the Mechwarrior 4 Hardpoint system. As someone who has played every Mechwarrior/Mechcommander game thoroughly, and dipped into the TT rules just to see what they were like, I can confidently say that the original Mechlab has some serious and fundamental problems. Even Mechwarrior Online's hardpoint system seems to be the result of technical limitations (rendering the weapons on the mech model) rather than intelligent design. I dearly hope we see something more like Mechwarrior 4's excellent Energy/Ballistic/Missile/Direct-Fire/Heat-generating/Ammo-requiring/Omni hardpoint system, where the hardpoints themselves come in different sizes and several small weapons can replace a single large weapon. Certainly the books and the lore describe such a system, which is different from MWO's band-aid hardpoint system.

 

[Bilbo999]

I will always miss the Mechwarrior 4 Hardpoint system. As someone who has played every Mechwarrior/Mechcommander game thoroughly, and dipped into the TT rules just to see what they were like, I can confidently say that the original Mechlab has some serious and fundamental problems. Even Mechwarrior Online's hardpoint system seems to be the result of technical limitations (rendering the weapons on the mech model) rather than intelligent design. I dearly hope we see something more like Mechwarrior 4's excellent Energy/Ballistic/Missile/Direct-Fire/Heat-generating/Ammo-requiring/Omni hardpoint system, where the hardpoints themselves come in different sizes and several small weapons can replace a single large weapon. Certainly the books and the lore describe such a system, which is different from MWO's band-aid hardpoint system.

Mechwarrior Online's Mechlab design wasn't limited by weapon rendering. It was designed before changing the mech model to indicate weapon loadout was a thing. We know what the hardpoint system will be in Battletech. There are no size restrictions beyond giving small lasers, machine guns and flamers a dedicated support hardpoint. Otherwise, you can stick whatever size weapon you want into it's corresponding hardpoint ( laser, ballistic, missile, and support) assuming you have the tonnage and crit space.

 

[Zak DelVillar]

I would say it is pretty unlikely that they will be using the hard points from MWO for a couple of reasons.

1) There are simply not as many variants available in 3025 as in 3050 and beyond. Each game comes from a very different timeline.
2) The hard point selections for MWO are there largely to provide different play styles with similar chassis.
3) The variety of weapons available for MWO and Battletech are very different with BT having a good deal fewer options
4) The gameplay mechanics are so very different it would be foolish to mimic one to the other, IMHO.
5) The hard point selection in BT, according to inferences drawn from Q & A as well as updates, is largely determined on keeping the chassis viable even after damage and limited replacement options. This seems to me to mean that hard points will be placed there more to keep options open rather than optimizing the chassis for max damage.
6) The devs have also made it clear that they want to maintain the spirit of the tabletop game which MWO has basically thrown by the wayside largely in favor of balance and optimization for their style of game. (Not making any comment on if this is good or bad just stating a fact as I see it.)

This all being said I would imagine that the hard point selections will be close to the sarna.com versions of the mechs with a few more thrown in for variety's sake. Of course like all of us outside of the know this is a guess. What the heck do I know? Hahaha.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

But the Mechs shown off in the pictures largely match up to the MWO hardpoints, even when the hard points aren't even feasible, as with the urbanmech (it's impossible to stack 4 ballistic weapons in an urbie- presumably MWO allowed MGs, but HBS BT doesn't).

And it saves art and animation costs to use the weapon hardpoints MWO has already modeled.

 

[Zak DelVillar]

But the Mechs shown off in the pictures largely match up to the MWO hardpoints, even when the hard points aren't even feasible, as with the urbanmech.

And it saves art and animation costs to use the weapon hardpoints MWO has already modeled.

Look you might be right, as I said, what the heck do I KNOW. Nothing, I just suspect that they will be different for the reasons I posted above. I will find out with the rest of you haha and I can't wait!

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I would say it is pretty unlikely that they will be using the hard points from MWO for a couple of reasons...

The fact that ALL of BATTLETECH's Mech Data came directly from Alex's Team at PGI, is a pretty good indicator that while HBS may add Hardpoints, they at least started off with PGI data as the BATTLETECH baseline.