Hard point inflation in battletech. What, How, Why and Where.

[Cyttorak001]

Another thing about hardpoint inflation is that it's going to change some of the prices. The base 'Mech chassis price listed in the MechDef files is partially based on number and type of hardpoints, I think. I also think it may not be a linear scale, with several 'Mechs with only 2 hardpoints being massively cheap for their weight/engine compared to others, while the HBK-4P is massively overpriced due to its 8 energy (and 1 support) hardpoints.

If 'Mechs like the GRF-1N get even a couple of more hardpoints added, it ought to raise their price significantly into the mainstream. CDA-2A also.

 

[Fox the Apprentice]

Another thing about hardpoint inflation is that it's going to change some of the prices. The base 'Mech chassis price listed in the MechDef files is partially based on number and type of hardpoints, I think. I also think it may not be a linear scale, with several 'Mechs with only 2 hardpoints being massively cheap for their weight/engine compared to others, while the HBK-4P is massively overpriced due to its 8 energy (and 1 support) hardpoints.

If 'Mechs like the GRF-1N get even a couple of more hardpoints added, it ought to raise their price significantly into the mainstream. CDA-2A also.

Helps them keep their mechs to be rare and expensive.

 

[Iron Legionnaire]

I didn't find another thread going over the numbers on the mechs as they are released, so here we go: another ballistic hard point, two support hardpoints, and what I imagine is a provision for up to three jump jets. The Atlas already has a pretty diverse loadout, so I can't say I'm surprised that the inflation was minimized. I wonder where that other ballistic hardpoint went, though...

 

[Juodas Varnas]

View attachment 341136

I didn't find another thread going over the numbers on the mechs as they are released, so here we go: another ballistic hard point, two support hardpoints, and what I imagine is a provision for up to three jump jets. The Atlas already has a pretty diverse loadout, so I can't say I'm surprised that the inflation was minimized. I wonder where that other ballistic hardpoint went, though...

I assume it's in the same torso, since that's what PGI's assets allow for (like for example: a double AC5 in the torso)

 

[Chaon]

I look at that, and I see the jump jet number as the maximum number you can install.

Since they are allowing you to add jump jets to all mechs if you want, it tells you how far it can jump and not how many it has installed. Which this mech doesn't have standard.

 

[Iron Legionnaire]

As far as the JJs go, yes, that's what I was thinking as well. Hence the provision for, rather than of, up to three of them.

Has there been any light shed on how many critical spaces weapons use and how many are available? Is it safe to assume we're going to hew to the standard set in MWO? A pair of AC5s in a single torso wouldn't be outrageous (or terrible) but I can't imagine we'll see a King Crab copycat here... Also helps to constrain the use of those hardpoints and preserve some of the distinction between mechs, I think.

 

[shadojak]

I have apparently missed part of the conversation...
Can someone explain a support hard point to me?
What exactly goes there?

 

[Juodas Varnas]

I have apparently missed part of the conversation...
Can someone explain a support hard point to me?
What exactly goes there?

Support hardpoints are for Small Lasers, Machine Guns and Flamers.

 

[shadojak]

Support hardpoints are for Small Lasers, Machine Guns and Flamers.

Thank you kind sir!

 

[Amechwarrior]

This is good, minimal inflation with just 1 extra ballistic and 2 support. This means we may see mediums and lights with more hardpoints than big guys, but no tonnage to really exploit them. This gives fragile units an out when it comes to repairs and scarcity while preventing massed ML boats on those who have the tonnage to run it without shutting down.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

The Atlas-D, especially if both Ballistics Hardpoints are in the same Torso, is yet another exemplar of BATTLETECH BattleMech Variant "Core Identity."

And one that I very, very much celebrate, support and hope to see more of. : )

 

[HonorKnight]

Support hardpoints are for Small Lasers, Machine Guns and Flamers.

Support weapons are also usable in combination with melee or DFA attacks. So the Atlas, which already had an inflated +15 melee damage, just got even more potential melee damage.

 

[Kereminde]

And one that I very, very much celebrate, support and hope to see more of. : )

Given your attitude shortly before the move of trepidation and worry on this front, it warms my cold black heart to see you optimistic again.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Support weapons are also usable in combination with melee or DFA attacks. So the Atlas, which already had an inflated +15 melee damage, just got even more potential melee damage.

Since you are the go to guy regarding stats and tables, how well does a firestarter perform in melee engagments ? fully kitted out with 6 damaging support weapons i mean.

EDIT: also how is melee against a bigger mech handled are there penalties for that?

 

[Packrat]

EDIT: also how is melee against a bigger mech handled are there penalties for that?

IIRC, being in melee range of a mech that can do more melee damage than you was deemed penalty enough.

 

[Chaon]

Melee is an equal opportunity event. Sure your light mech is going to do minimal damage to my Assault but I have seen a Commando leap up and kick the head off an Awesome.

The Firestarter is actually a fantastic melee combatant. With it's flamers and MG's, it is not just the physical attack but the flamers that damage and add heat and then the MG's seeking for any open armor that you have to worry about. Add in DFA and a Firestarter is a deadly little beast and is usually something I focus fire to get rid of first if possible.

 

[HonorKnight]

Since you are the go to guy regarding stats and tables, how well does a firestarter perform in melee engagments ? fully kitted out with 6 damaging support weapons i mean.

EDIT: also how is melee against a bigger mech handled are there penalties for that?

Some data you might like:
https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9656 (Raw data: Survivability. Armor, evasion charges, size bonus, etc. for stock 'Mechs)
https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9430 (Raw data: Melee, DFA, and small weapons by 'Mech type)
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-any-other-name-would-smash-as-sweet.1073707/ (BattleFists: a quirk by any other name would smash as sweet)
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...l-mech-tonnage-for-dfa.1073009/#post-23875764 (Optimal 'Mech Tonnage for DFA)

Some details for you...

Defensively:

• At 35 tons, it's the largest you can go as a light, thus the highest structure and armor potential you can get as a light 'Mech.
• Evasion chevrons work differently in melee; DFA ignores 3 pips of evasion, and Melee ignores 4 pips of evasion. Since larger 'Mechs are typically incapable of getting over 4 pips, light 'Mechs like this can get an edge over them in evasion. As a fast, jumpy 'Mech, Firestarter can initiate a DFA from far away, so they land with a full stack of 6 chevrons (effectively 60% harder to be with with ranged weapons, 30% harder to be hit with DFA, 20% harder to be hit with melee). Having the Evasive Movement trait helps by adding one pip of evasive, but you'll probably be using Paradise or some other pilot with Angel of Death, so you'll already have Evasive Movement.
• All light mechs get an inherent +2 to be hit (usually 10% harder to hit) at any range, so that's not specific to melee but it still helps, especially when stacked with full evasive pips.

Offensively:

• No special bonuses in melee, like some 'Mechs get. It just does the standard damage for its weight.
• Again, it's 35 tons, thus the highest DFA damage you can get as a light 'Mech.
• Its 6 support hardpoints are awesome for melee or DFA. The stock loadout is okay, but if you stack 6 flamers you can bring some major utility to support your other 'Mechs getting called shots on an important target (of course, these only work 3 times), or if you stack machine guns you can sandpaper the crap of of a target at no heat cost or do some deadly shots to exposed structure. Stacking small lasers would maximize damage, but would amplify the heat problems you're going to have with long jumps on this guy.
• As a light 'Mech, you can take advantage of reserving to go last then going first the next turn to orchestrate a hit-and-run
• Piloting affects melee and DFA hit chances, and since you'll probably be using Paradise or some other pilot with Angel of Death, you'll already have at least 8 piloting.

Strategy notes:

• Attacking 2 rounds back-to-back is inadvisable unless you can cause the target to shut down from heat and there are no other enemies are nearby, or if it's just time to do a kamikaze for the greater good. You'd lose your evasion chevrons on the second round, and that's the main thing keeping you alive. You need to get in fast and furious, then get the heck out of dodge and hide for at least a turn while your heat settles down (if you sprint away instead of jump away, that helps conserve heat too). At a minimum charge or leap at a different enemy a decent distance away the next turn so you keep some evasion going from the movement.
• A DFA 'Mechs purpose is usually to line up a one-two knockdown, with the DFA getting the target unstable then somebody else completing the knockdown so your remaining 'Mechs can core them out with called shots. Best case scenario, a firestarter can inflict 90 instability, which means your second 'Mech needs to have a reliable ability to do at least 10 stability damage after accounting for misses. Then as long as your other 'Mechs are in range and have suitable initiative to run up and get called shots in, you should be all set.
• Due to the tendency of the Firestarter's laundry list of support weapons to "sandpaper" the target, I like to jump to one side of the target to maximize the focus, because it restricts most damage to only 3 sections of the 'Mech instead of 7 or so, thus reducing the spread of your 2 DFA kicks and many small weapons. With higher chance of each attack hitting the same place, the DFA might even open up a hole in the armor that can be taken advantage of by later called shots or even some immediate machine gun fire can exploit a hole given that weapon's bonus critical chance to an unarmored section. Some people would advocate rear attacks here, but if you're lining up for knockdown called shots that's a lot of wasted damage on the back armor given that the back won't be exposed when they're flat on the ground.

Hit chance table:

 

[KnightCole]

I know I put extra hardpoints on the mechs I had modded to give them variety in the loadouts. Had a Zeus with E in the arms, 1M 1E in the torsos. I kept jumping between Ballistics and energy in the AC5 arm.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Thank you for your time Honor knight, maybe HBS should just hire you

 

[ronhatch]

I've tried the 6 MG Firestarter... had a lot of fun with it.

Wrote up an AAR back on the old forums:
https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/10594