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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Calad

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Feb 5, 2006
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Dear reader.

Is CK2 too easy for you? Did you recently build another huge Empire just to abandon it? Do you know all the exploits? Do you want to fall down more often?


If yes this mod might be what you need!

The core principle of this mod is to make game harder to player and to AI at the same time. CK2 has slowly became a punishing game, a game that breaks its own rules like free troop event (adventures, rebellions and decadent invasions) and I will chance this.
This mod wont be a mod that gives player -30% levy and AI +30%, if you know how to exploit and play CK2 it wont even slow you down.
This mod will make all starting situations more challenging so players can enjoy playing Abbasids, Byzantines or Salians without being unstoppable from the start. This mod will be 99% like vanilla, but to understand new mechanics please read all diaries!

So what is punishing game? Punishing game does not reward player and breaks it own rules to make game more difficult. Instead of saying "congratulations, you have made it this far, and you deserve your glory" game does add extra difficulty so you wont get too far ahead of others.

I found a very good video which explain difference between a difficult game and a punishing game.

To me and to this mod rules are:
  • No free troops nor troops out of thin air
  • No easy nor free opinion bonuses
First rule is not complitely must, because rebellions are troops out of nowhere, so are Azteks and Mongols. But the difference is huge when compared to vanilla rebellions and so on.

Keep mind that purpose of this mod is to stay 99% like vanilla, so even a new player can jumb in without a lot of confusion.

Muslims greatly balanced.
Decadence counter.
Prestige counter.
Gifts reworked.
Stats are hidden.
Vasallization is disabled.
Some traits work differently.
Crown laws reworked.
Laws complitely remade.
Rebels reworked.
Religious conversation complitely reworked.
Culture and religious spread much slower.

Diaries:
Version 0.1 will include:

Done
Under work
Planning
  • Balanced Muslims
  • Balanced gifts
  • Reworked or balanced rebels
  • Reworked de jure empires
  • Reworked religious conversation
  • Opinion modifiers of laws, traits, culture and religion balanced
  • AI aggression (will be in v2)
  • AI marriage
  • Vassallization
  • Chancellor and spiritual advisor siplomatic mission balanced
  • Levy and tax laws reworked
  • Succession law opinions reworked
  • A lot of minor chances in #defines file
  • Religious and cultural spread speed
  • Branch house mechanics (will be in v2)

Download link: not ready yet!
 
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Calad

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Feb 5, 2006
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Busting Muslims, decadence and prestige counters.

Why Muslims are broken:

Lets go to main issue of CK2: Great Green Blob. Despite Horse Lords coming out soon I decided to make this mod because unfortunately I believe Paradox won't fix Muslims. This has been issue very long time and after every patch unbalance issues have gotten only worse.

Basically Abbasid blob and Umayyad won't ever collapse because they always have +100 vassal opinion. Even when they have decadence invasion or Shia uprising their realms are simply so big and they have so many troops they are very likely to win it. Thats why even if an inbred rules them they are solid as Russian concrete.

Reasons why their vassals have +100 opinion are:

Prestige: Abbasid from the start after getting all wifes generate +20 prestige monthly. With this amount it takes only 8-9 years to have 2000 prestige which gives you +20 vassal opinion.

Piety: every 25 piety gives 1 opinion. So when you have 500 piety your vassals have another +20 opinion on you. Gaining 500 piety is ridiculous easy as Abbasids.

Sayyid: Mohammed was your ancestor. This trait gives you another +10 opinion.

Hajjaj: you went to Mecca or you are on the way there. Another +10 opinion.

Now you should see the problem: you can have +60 opinion from the start without doing anything, without any traits, laws and diplomacy. This is why Abbasids almost never collapse because it is very unlikely they will have bad relations with their vassals.

First I decided to make decadence work again. Decadence should make Muslim realms collapse by giving their armies worse morale. Problem is that Abbasids have so many troops it likely wont matter because even if they lose one army they can build up another.

Decadence counter:


Decadence counter gives you -2 opinion from every 10 decadence from zero, so -20 on total. It is a trigger modifier that exist on every Muslim. Also decadence trait gives you -2 on all attributes.

Prestige counter:


Second is prestige counter.

Idea of prestige counter is to reduce snowballing prestige. Simply because of your previous character was able to build a huge Empire is not a reason why his son is liked as well. Prestige counter is very hars: it affects on every landed ruler (not Barons) on any religion.

Prestige counter is designed on Abbasids standards especially so on maximum it gives -10 monthly prestige, minimum is -1. There are 10 levels: -1, -2, -3... and so on till -10. Levels are triggered by amount of prestige you have, between 0 to 300 you have -1 reduction, from 300 to 600 -2 and last trigger activates from 2700 onwards. Kings have 25% reduction (from -0.75 to -7.5), dukes 50% reduction (from -0.5 to -5) and counts 75% reduction (from -0.25 to -2.5)

Now if you think this twice you see the problem: "what if you are 1 king of one province?" This can lead up into similar end like Byzantines had: an Empire nobody takes seriously. Game mechanics did not allow % prestige reduction on trigger modifier so this was the best I was able to come up with.

Prestige from own buildings:

Final prestige reduction is to counter "prestige from own buildings".


Now I need to explain this out:

when I was studying why Abbasids have so high opinion I tracked down every source of their prestige:

Most of it makes sense. Only "prestige from vassals" and "prestige from own buildings" I could not explain. I decided to ignore first one and go after later. I asked from forum from where "prestige from own buildings" comes and no-one knew. Then I studied game files and found from v1_102 file this: LIEGE_PRESTIGE _SELF;Prestige from own buildings: §G+$VALUE$§!;

LIEGE_PRESTIGE_SELF did not exist in any file in game so I came to conclusion that it is something that paradox worked with, and then ignored and finally forgotten. It cannot be modified nor removed. It refers some hardcoded files. It exist randomly on independent Muslim rulers and always every independent kind or emperor have this, not dukes or counts always. I dont know where it came from or how it can be explained but it exist. And +5 free monthly prestige is a huge number.

This is why I made my own "prestige from own buildings" trigger to balance this out. +5 free prestige is equal to 25 vassal dukes. This is how much it really is.

Piety:

About piety I made it work similar like prestige: 100 piety is now 1 opinion instead of 25.

Muslim traits:

Finally I removed opinion bonuses from Sayyid, Hajjaj and On Hajj. I also reduced size of Arabian Empire but about these two I will write more later.

Future thought:

On future Im planning to rework decadence invasion, because free magical troops coming from air dont really fit into this game.
 
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WKIII

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Few things I want to mention about the Germanic faith:
  1. When a Germanic prepared invasion is done, All or at least several of the coastal-only provinces should become Germanic provinces.
  2. Catholics are just OP in missionary against the Germanic Norsemen, they have no chance converting their Catholic provinces, which results in a row of Catholic uprisings and the AI always fails to take them down due tactical mistakes, which later also results in Religious moral lose which makes then even more weaker.
  3. Tribal Saxons should be able to deal with the Castles in East Francia somehow, otherwise there is no point playing as the Germanic Saxons because any province you would conquer is irrelevant since it's non-tribal and wrong government type...
  4. Catholics should get a CB to invade a character who is raiding their realms too often.
 
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Calad

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Few things I want to mention about the Germanic faith:
  1. When a Germanic prepared invasion is done, All or at least several of the coastal-only provinces should become Germanic provinces.
  2. Catholics are just OP in missionary against the Germanic Norsemen, they have no chance converting their Catholic provinces, which results in a row of Catholic uprisings and the AI always fails to take them down due tactical mistakes, which later also results in Religious moral lose which makes then even more weaker.
  3. Tribal Saxons should be able to deal with the Castles in East Francia somehow, otherwise there is no point playing as the Germanic Saxons because any province you would conquer is irrelevant since it's non-tribal and wrong government type...
  4. Catholics should get a CB to invade a character who is raiding their realms too often.
1. I dont know how this could be modded.
2. Religious conversation is ahistorical fast. I will address this later and uprisings as well. Rebellions should be fewer and weaker.
3. Isnt this problem for all tribals when they conquer civilized land?
4. Next patch will address this problem.
 

WKIII

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I can help you with the Germanic prepared invasion CB if you want.

Edit:
Should it be any coastal province? or just a specific amount of coastal provinces?
Like maximum 4 provinces get converted but no more. Because some realms like Northumberland are having most of their provinces coastal, which means if you will invade them, you will virtually convert all of middle British region into Germanic. Same situation should appear with the Netherlands, once you invade Frisia you get nearly 90% of the Dutch realm become Germanic since it's mostly a coastal realm. should this be implemented? Or limit it by a maximum?

Edit 2:
Should both Culture and Religion be converted to Germanic\Norse?
Or just religion become Germanic while local culture stays the same?
 
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HREmperor

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Idk how many provinces should convert but it should be culture and religion. The religion change is happening due to Norse settlers, not a mass conversion of the natives.
 
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Okay, I've decided that every province you occupy is getting converted in both Culture and Religion (likely Germanic\Norse) since it is the most realistic result I can expect from Invaders, once they occupy, they take it and they also populate it.

By the way, why the previous (All coastal) isn't realistic compared to it? I'll explain, because suppose you invaded France, which has Western and Northern coasts, once you will invade it from North, in the end of the war you will get all Western coast converted to Germanic\Norse as well, which is wrong, cause your armies didn't even step there or why on earth should they invade France from Western coast while they come from North-East side of Europe? Same could happen with Britain and Italy and many other kingdoms.

Edit: It's also the best for the AI, since the CB gives you complete control over provinces you've occupied, which is good cause you also gonna get them Germanic\Norse = Less revolts.
And by the way, The more effort you put in the invasion (means total conquer no surrender) the more Germanic provinces you get, therefore your results are measured by your war efforts.

Edit: The CB code:
Code:
viking_invasion = {
    name = CB_NAME_VIKING_INVASION
    war_name = WAR_NAME_VIKING_INVASION
    sprite = 8
    truce_days = 365
    hostile_against_others = no # Vikings share in the spoils...
    is_permanent = yes
    is_holy_war = yes
    can_ask_to_join_war = yes
    check_de_jure_tier = KING # this scans all de jure kingdoms for the counties which are held by or vassals(or below) of selected character. Only valid if is_permanent = yes
    apply_short_occ_mod = no # Do not apply the 'recently_conquered' modifier to Holdings

    can_use = {
        ROOT = {
            has_opinion_modifier = { who = FROM modifier = preparing_to_invade }
            NOT = { is_liege_or_above = FROM }
        }
    }
  
    can_use_title = {
        is_valid_viking_invasion_target = FROM # Checks that FROM holds the right amount of territory in the kingdom
    }
  
    is_valid_title = {
        FROM = {
            any_realm_title = {
                de_jure_liege_or_above = PREVPREV
            }
        }
    }

    on_success = {
        ROOT = {
            prestige = 500
            piety = 250
            religion_authority = {
                modifier = won_viking_invasion
            }
          
            hidden_tooltip = {
                if = {
                    limit = {
                        has_nickname = no
                    }
                    random_list = {
                        10 = { give_nickname = nick_the_great }
                        10 = { give_nickname = nick_the_victorious }
                        10 = { give_nickname = nick_the_fearless }
                        10 = { give_nickname = nick_the_brave }
                        10 = { give_nickname = nick_haardraade }
                        10 = { give_nickname = nick_the_viking }
                        10 = { give_nickname = nick_the_dragon }
                        10 = { give_nickname = nick_the_ironside }
                    }
                }
            }
        }
      
        any_attacker = {
            limit = { character = ROOT }
            participation_scaled_prestige = 300
        }
        any_attacker = {
            limit = { NOT = { character = ROOT } }
            hidden_tooltip = { participation_scaled_prestige = 300 }
        }
        FROM = {
            prestige = -500
        }
    }
  
    on_success_title = {
        custom_tooltip = {
            text = tribal_invasion_succ_tip
            hidden_tooltip = {
                FROM = {
                    any_realm_province = {
                        limit = {
                            controlled_by = ROOT
                        }
                        culture = ROOT
                        religion = ROOT
                    }
                }
                ROOT = {
                    occupy_minors_of_occupied_settlements = FROM
                    gain_all_occupied_titles = { who = FROM type = invasion }
                    vassalize_or_take_under_title_destroy_duchies = {
                        title = PREV
                        enemy = FROM
                        type = invasion
                    }
                  
                    # Settle the special invasion forces
                    disband_event_forces = prepared_invasion
                    any_demesne_title = {
                        limit = { tier = BARON }
                        remove_holding_modifier = recently_conquered
                        refill_holding_levy = yes
                    }
                }
              
                if = {
                    limit = {
                        FROM = { is_liege_or_above = ROOT }
                    }
                    FROM = { imprison = ROOT }
                }
            }
        }
    }

    on_fail = {
        FROM = {
            prestige = 200
        }
        any_defender = {
            limit = { character = FROM }
            participation_scaled_prestige = 200
        }
        any_defender = {
            limit = { NOT = { character = FROM } }
            hidden_tooltip = { participation_scaled_prestige = 200 }
        }
        ROOT = {
            prestige = -300
            piety = -100
            hidden_tooltip = {
                disband_event_forces = prepared_invasion
            }
            religion_authority = {
                modifier = lost_viking_invasion
            }
        }
    }

    on_reverse_demand = {
        ROOT = {
            prestige = -500
            piety = -250
            transfer_scaled_wealth = {
                to = FROM
                value = 2.0
            }
            hidden_tooltip = {
                disband_event_forces = prepared_invasion
            }
            religion_authority = {
                modifier = lost_viking_invasion
            }
        }
        FROM = {
            prestige = 300
        }
        FROM = {
            if = {
                limit = {
                    has_dlc = "Legacy of Rome"
                    OR = {
                        has_landed_title = e_byzantium
                        has_landed_title = e_roman_empire
                    }
                    religion_group = christian
                }
                hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = LoR.30 days = 12 } }
            }
        }
        any_defender = {
            limit = { character = FROM }
            participation_scaled_prestige = 250
        }
        any_defender = {
            limit = { NOT = { character = FROM } }
            hidden_tooltip = { participation_scaled_prestige = 250 }
        }
    }

    attacker_ai_victory_worth = {
        factor = 200
    }
  
    attacker_ai_defeat_worth = {
        factor = 100
    }

    defender_ai_victory_worth = {
        factor = -1 # always accept
    }
  
    defender_ai_defeat_worth = {
        factor = 100
    }
}
 
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HREmperor

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I will address revolts later but this code kind of makes sense and is historical as well. It can be exploited tough so perhabs some limit or % of success needs to be added?
Yeah I was thinking that it would get s bit crazy if you could flip all of England. You'd have to empty all of Scandinavia to do that.
 

WKIII

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I will address revolts later but this code kind of makes sense and is historical as well. It can be exploited tough so perhabs some limit or % of success needs to be added?
Well I just tested it today, it's slightly OP I must admit, very easy to exploit, but AI still don't do more than 100%, while the player can keep occupying everything even if 100% already reached.

I just invaded West Francia and occupied all their territory so then all of western Europe turned into Germanic\Norse.
I think there should be some limits to that, I thought maybe: Only if both coastal AND occupied then it get converted, because that's how it more or less was in history, for example, the Scottish isles, Normandy, The Danelaw (Jorvik) and Isle of Man, Kingdom of Guthrum, All were very accessible to sea so I assume that's why Norsemen settled there easily.
 

Calad

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Well I just tested it today, it's slightly OP I must admit, very easy to exploit, but AI still don't do more than 100%, while the player can keep occupying everything even if 100% already reached.
Like this I cant include it into this mod. Main point of this mod was to make game more challencing by removing exploits, not adding them.

I'd really like to try this, as it looks promising, but am I blind or is there no download link?
It is not ready yet...
 

HREmperor

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Well I just tested it today, it's slightly OP I must admit, very easy to exploit, but AI still don't do more than 100%, while the player can keep occupying everything even if 100% already reached.

I just invaded West Francia and occupied all their territory so then all of western Europe turned into Germanic\Norse.
I think there should be some limits to that, I thought maybe: Only if both coastal AND occupied then it get converted, because that's how it more or less was in history, for example, the Scottish isles, Normandy, The Danelaw (Jorvik) and Isle of Man, Kingdom of Guthrum, All were very accessible to sea so I assume that's why Norsemen settled there easily.
You should release that as a separate mod. And maybe add a limit to the number of provinces that'll be converted. That way it won't give ridiculous conversions(like the entire coast of West Francia) and the players won't have as big an advantage over the AI.
 

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Basically Abbasid blob and Umayyad won't ever collapse because they always have +100 vassal opinion. Even when they have decadence invasion or Shia uprising their realms are simply so big and they have so many troops they are very likely to win it. Thats why even if an inbred rules them they are solid as Russian concrete.
I's so glad to see you working on this exact problem. I really wish paradox would take these ridiculous modifiers into account for once.
 

Calad

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I's so glad to see you working on this exact problem. I really wish paradox would take these ridiculous modifiers into account for once.
Thanks!

There are couple more of them as well. Elective gives you +20 vassal opinion. So if you wonder why there are so many elective realms it is because of this. This also explains why HRE is so stable: because ruler is always rather popular (and has a high diplomacy, ai usually votes person who has the highest diplomacy). I will try to make HRE more weaker, during ck2 period HRE was important but not OP.

With some tricks Byzantium can become another Abbasid blob. +10 borned in purple, +20 from elective and lets say you reform Rome +15 from augustus. Also remember you can freely arrange duke-tier vassals. It takes some work but likehood is losing Empire is pretty small.
 

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god DAYYUM! liked and subscribed! haven't done much playing as muslims, but i am glad to see a Hard Mode start more as a Balancing Mode.