Happiness overflow/lost resources

[Pobez]

idea of having excess happiness in a colony rollover toward that colony's next happiness so that people do not have to play plus and minus with each individual city's economy if that wanna run their city for happiness
would be a good idea i think
at the moment the way it works is any gained happiness in excess of what is needed to trigger event is lost resource if u need 40 for event and you have 34 and are gaining 10 why not have that 6 extra roll over toward next event
in current state of the game if a player wants to play happiness slot machine economy at 70/100 threshold and hope they they get their high resource instead of low resource/income loss then they have to check each city on all end turns to make sure of not losing resource when wanting to crank out happiness events
This city for example loses 20 resource when I could have gotten extra production that I need badly because i forgot to go check each city before hitting end turn

possible situation that could possibly spiral out of control late though with this idea would be game people getting 2 happiness events a turn on a fresh city with a food/happiness landmark with a happiness exploit on it but at the same time in current game state they would be losing tons of resources over 10 turns because of lost happiness

*edit another possible idea excess happiness becomes added to a city's highest resource or just energy this answer would solve issue of wasted income without creating situations of multiple happiness event per turn*

that or to just have excess happiness grant 1 random resource which city produces of the base 4 food/energy/prod/research and excluding cosmite/influence and just give resource equal in value to the excess happiness this would fit the happiness theme of give me stuff so 6 excess happiness would becomes 4 resource while 20 would become 20 resource unaffected by wellness center multiplier

 

[Melikat]

I was writing a post about this but I didn't have an actual suggestion for how/what to change so I didn't post it. I'll post it below because it has some data on Happiness Events.


Unlike the other sources of income, Happiness toward Happiness events does not carry over. This means that it's very easy to waste a lot of Happiness income on nothing. Potentially up to 49.5% wasted happiness if you happened to have 99 happiness income and 100 required. Technically it could be substantially higher if you had say 160 income and 40 happiness required, wasting 120 (or 75%) of it! But that should be exceptionally unlikely, right? Or is it?

With the Happiness Wellness Center you can reduce the required Happiness from 40-70-100 to 20-35-50. And when you combine an Oathbound Colony Lord on top of it you further reduce by another additive 30% to an impossibly low 8-14-20 per event, making it possible to waste 90-95% of your happiness income if you were really pushing for it. Now of course you'd never assign so many workers to Happiness when you've already surpassed one event per turn, but it does emphasize the lost income and the wastefulness of this resource.

Conversely, being able to acquire 10! happiness events per turn in one city is absurd. That could be 700+ Cosmite or 5000+ resources per turn from just one city (though it would probably have to be your capital for that much Cosmite).

From the (somewhat limited) testing I've done it seems that you cannot get a resource if your income of it is 0. That is to say in about 30 turns of testing this with 4 cities (and another ~40 with 2 cities beforehand) I never once received Cosmite or Influence from cities that did not have a source of it. I received no research from cities with 0 research and very very rarely did I receive Food with all cities on Share/Sell excess (but I believe that was due to the share settings bug changing it before/during ending my turn - it only happened in a 6-pop city I was mass-producing colonizers to reduce pop after annexing 3 sectors and the settings only changed sometimes when a thing was produced).

Spoiler: Happiness Income

22 base happiness with buildings
+13 Happiness income per worker (with buildings and 2x residential sectors)

Other Sources of Happiness (I may be missing some):
- Autonom Doctrine: +8 Happiness
- Psi Fish Doctrine: +6 Happiness
- Syndicate Spell: +12 Happiness
- Kir'ko Doctrine: +2/4/6 for each Non-Aggression/Defensive/Alliance
- Amazon Doctrine: +6 per Forest
- Heritor Doctrine: +20 Happiness
- Celestian Doctrine: +6 Happiness
- Shakarn Doctrine: +4 for River
- Synthesis Doctrine: +10 Happiness
- Shakarn Spell (Must be Shakarn): +10 Happiness
- Oathbound Residential Building: +5 per worker (up to 6 workers)
- +8 per Veil of Tranquility (Unsure if/how they stack now)

Without conflicting sources (ie. Not playing Empire Mode) I think the max might be...

+14 for playing Shakarn (10 from Propaganda tower, 4 from Doctrine - does the Doctrine give +4 for EVERY sector that has a river, I wonder?)
+20 for playing Heritor (Doctrine)
+12 for Syndicate Tech (Bread and Circuses)
+8 for having Autonom in the game (Doctrine)
+6 for having Psifish in the game (Doctrine)
+30 for being an Oathbound City with 6 workers on Residential building (only applicable for high-pop cities).
(I'm not sure if any of the Grails provide happiness, off hand)

For a total of +60 Happiness (+90 for Oathbound city).

Spoiler: Happiness Events per Turn

Happiness Events require 40 Happiness at 1-6 Pop.
70 Happiness at 7-11 Pop
And 100 Happiness at 12+ Pop.

6 Pop:
Upkeep = -12
Base + Buildings = +22
6x13 happiness workers = 78
Other sources = +60
= 148 /40 = 3.7 Happiness events per turn
= 148 /8 = 18.5 with Wellness + Colony Lord

11 Pop:
Upkeep = -22
Base + Buildings = +22
11x13 Happiness workers = 143
Other Sources = +60
= 203 /70 = 2.9 Happiness events per turn
= 203 /14 = 14.5 with Wellness + Colony Lord

18 Pop (Maximizes Happiness+Residential workers w/o landmarks)
Upkeep = -36
Base + Buildings = +22
12x13 Happiness workers = 156
Other sources = +90 (+30 from Residential workers included)
= 232 /100 = 2.32 Happiness events per turn
= 232 /20 = 11.6 with Wellness + Colony Lord

23 Pop (Maximizes Happiness+Residential workers with 1 Celestian landmark and 1 Elysium landmark)
Upkeep = -46
Base + Buildings = +22
17x13 Happiness workers = 221
Other sources = +90
= 287 /100 = 2.87 Happiness events per turn
= 287 /20 = 14.35 with Wellness + Colony Lord

30 Pop (Maximizes Happiness+Residential workers with 4 Elysium landmarks)
Upkeep = -60
Base+Buildings = 22
24x13 Happiness workers = 312
Other sources = +90
= 364 /100 = 3.64 Happiness Events per turn
= 364 /20 = 18.2 with Wellness + Colony Lord

Now you have to take some of this with a grain of salt because having all of your workers devoted to happiness means less income and therefore your happiness events are not as lucrative. Adding another ~15 colonists to work Energy or Research means your happiness income is reduced by 30 in turn, which is well worth it for sure (especially if you can get the unused resources down to 0 to maximize the number of events in your worked resources) but the expected happiness events per turn does change and it takes much longer to acquire that many citizens. While the 6-pop city is the best Happiness events/turn (and much more reasonable than having 4 Elysium landmarks!) it's also receiving fewer resources from those events.

So anyway, there is definitely a problem with wasted happiness income but there is also a problem with it carrying over when you are specializing a city for happiness. I'm not yet sure how to fix this with the way happiness events currently work.

 

[Pobez]

I was writing a post about this but I didn't have an actual suggestion for how/what to change so I didn't post it. I'll post it below because it has some data on Happiness Events.


Unlike the other sources of income, Happiness toward Happiness events does not carry over. This means that it's very easy to waste a lot of Happiness income on nothing. Potentially up to 49.5% wasted happiness if you happened to have 99 happiness income and 100 required. Technically it could be substantially higher if you had say 160 income and 40 happiness required, wasting 120 (or 75%) of it! But that should be exceptionally unlikely, right? Or is it?

With the Happiness Wellness Center you can reduce the required Happiness from 40-70-100 to 20-35-50. And when you combine an Oathbound Colony Lord on top of it you further reduce by another additive 30% to an impossibly low 8-14-20 per event, making it possible to waste 90-95% of your happiness income if you were really pushing for it. Now of course you'd never assign so many workers to Happiness when you've already surpassed one event per turn, but it does emphasize the lost income and the wastefulness of this resource.

Conversely, being able to acquire 10! happiness events per turn in one city is absurd. That could be 700+ Cosmite or 5000+ resources per turn from just one city (though it would probably have to be your capital for that much Cosmite).

From the (somewhat limited) testing I've done it seems that you cannot get a resource if your income of it is 0. That is to say in about 30 turns of testing this with 4 cities (and another ~40 with 2 cities beforehand) I never once received Cosmite or Influence from cities that did not have a source of it. I received no research from cities with 0 research and very very rarely did I receive Food with all cities on Share/Sell excess (but I believe that was due to the share settings bug changing it before/during ending my turn - it only happened in a 6-pop city I was mass-producing colonizers to reduce pop after annexing 3 sectors and the settings only changed sometimes when a thing was produced).

Spoiler: Happiness Income

22 base happiness with buildings
+13 Happiness income per worker (with buildings and 2x residential sectors)

Other Sources of Happiness (I may be missing some):
- Autonom Doctrine: +8 Happiness
- Psi Fish Doctrine: +6 Happiness
- Syndicate Spell: +12 Happiness
- Kir'ko Doctrine: +2/4/6 for each Non-Aggression/Defensive/Alliance
- Amazon Doctrine: +6 per Forest
- Heritor Doctrine: +20 Happiness
- Celestian Doctrine: +6 Happiness
- Shakarn Doctrine: +4 for River
- Synthesis Doctrine: +10 Happiness
- Shakarn Spell (Must be Shakarn): +10 Happiness
- Oathbound Residential Building: +5 per worker (up to 6 workers)
- +8 per Veil of Tranquility (Unsure if/how they stack now)

Without conflicting sources (ie. Not playing Empire Mode) I think the max might be...

+14 for playing Shakarn (10 from Propaganda tower, 4 from Doctrine - does the Doctrine give +4 for EVERY sector that has a river, I wonder?)
+20 for playing Heritor (Doctrine)
+12 for Syndicate Tech (Bread and Circuses)
+8 for having Autonom in the game (Doctrine)
+6 for having Psifish in the game (Doctrine)
+30 for being an Oathbound City with 6 workers on Residential building (only applicable for high-pop cities).
(I'm not sure if any of the Grails provide happiness, off hand)

For a total of +60 Happiness (+90 for Oathbound city).

Spoiler: Happiness Events per Turn

Happiness Events require 40 Happiness at 1-6 Pop.
70 Happiness at 7-11 Pop
And 100 Happiness at 12+ Pop.

6 Pop:
Upkeep = -12
Base + Buildings = +22
6x13 happiness workers = 78
Other sources = +60
= 148 /40 = 3.7 Happiness events per turn
= 148 /8 = 18.5 with Wellness + Colony Lord

11 Pop:
Upkeep = -22
Base + Buildings = +22
11x13 Happiness workers = 143
Other Sources = +60
= 203 /70 = 2.9 Happiness events per turn
= 203 /14 = 14.5 with Wellness + Colony Lord

18 Pop (Maximizes Happiness+Residential workers w/o landmarks)
Upkeep = -36
Base + Buildings = +22
12x13 Happiness workers = 156
Other sources = +90 (+30 from Residential workers included)
= 232 /100 = 2.32 Happiness events per turn
= 232 /20 = 11.6 with Wellness + Colony Lord

23 Pop (Maximizes Happiness+Residential workers with 1 Celestian landmark and 1 Elysium landmark)
Upkeep = -46
Base + Buildings = +22
17x13 Happiness workers = 221
Other sources = +90
= 287 /100 = 2.87 Happiness events per turn
= 287 /20 = 14.35 with Wellness + Colony Lord

30 Pop (Maximizes Happiness+Residential workers with 4 Elysium landmarks)
Upkeep = -60
Base+Buildings = 22
24x13 Happiness workers = 312
Other sources = +90
= 364 /100 = 3.64 Happiness Events per turn
= 364 /20 = 18.2 with Wellness + Colony Lord

Now you have to take some of this with a grain of salt because having all of your workers devoted to happiness means less income and therefore your happiness events are not as lucrative. Adding another ~15 colonists to work Energy or Research means your happiness income is reduced by 30 in turn, which is well worth it for sure (especially if you can get the unused resources down to 0 to maximize the number of events in your worked resources) but the expected happiness events per turn does change and it takes much longer to acquire that many citizens. While the 6-pop city is the best Happiness events/turn (and much more reasonable than having 4 Elysium landmarks!) it's also receiving fewer resources from those events.

So anyway, there is definitely a problem with wasted happiness income but there is also a problem with it carrying over when you are specializing a city for happiness. I'm not yet sure how to fix this with the way happiness events currently work.

i think situations your presenting are not something that actually happens and it a post turn 50 situation in a extreme but it is good to consider there extreme case as well as run of the mill how things usually go case most games are over before all that happens but i said it myself that it could become out of control late game but really happiness is already out of control late in game as are most other things when the 20 prod or whatever matters much more its early in the game at least in multi player duels that are usually decided by turn 30 one idea that i could see working in all situations is to just have excess carryover happiness in excess of event just become either energy or the city's highest resource the later might be not be possible for devs who knows but i think the core idea is to do something with the wasted resource so that players can just say i want to play happiness lotto put guys in happiness and not have to play with a calculator to simply play the game instead of having to do math and just simplify the system and also solve leftover resource issue if leftover happiness were to just become energy/prod whatever then that would solve the issue of wasted income without creating out of control happiness situations another idea that could work out is if excess happiness made the events reward bigger in some way that worked and made sense without creating a mess to try and add up every turn but that might be too strong

 

[atord/Nordos]

Yes, I was sad after I loaded out an Empire configuration on happiness (because I played assembly against allied assemblies. I wanted happiness to prevent happiness deficit), getting over 100 happiness while I required far less. It was fun to get a happiness event each turn, but wasting a lot of happiness felt terrible, still. Because I had some extreme specializations (two times Food, two times Research), I had a serious production deficit, too. If happiness would carry over or converted to a random recourse, it would have at least alleviated some parts of my problem Also, it would make it more interesting to play on happiness, instead of saying that 'just build a Wellness Center in every colony, build the standard happiness things and generate more than enough'