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Panzerschiffe

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I was trying out Scotland for the first time and had carved it up nicely. Each vassal had 1 county and I held the only Duke title and never bothered to create the others. I began expanding and figured I might as well start giving out titles since my Kingdom was growing. Well, after years of peace amongst my vassal and all of them being really happy, I hand out my first 2 Duke titles (different vassals) and all my vassals start going to war...almost instantly! A few years later, one of the Dukes had 2 Duke titles and most of his vassals have been jailed! I knew medium CA wouldn't do anything to stop them warring but I still had it voted through. It really didn't do anything, as expected.

Is it just me or are Duke title really just more trouble than they're worth especially with the new faction system? The moment I gave away a Duke title, everything I had done to create a nicely carved Kingdom was undone.

Any tips on managing these troublesome Dukes so they don't become Super Dukes and try to oust me?
 

Comradebot

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I actually tend to think handing out duchies is better now with the faction system. Fewer direct vassals means fewer guys to send gifts, wards and diplomats at to make love me and fewer people I need to send my spymaster to scheme against. This increases the bigger you get, and having an Empire sized realm of only Counts is going to be a nightmare when it comes to managing factions.

The best way to stop Super Dukes is to be pro-active. Plot to revoke their titles, and try to goad them into rebelling so you can get more free revocations. And if you're short of better marriage options, marry yourself or your heir to their heir or someone who will inherit a claim. If you inherit all their holdings, you can divide back up as you see fit. If you inherit a claim, you can revoke that title for free without worry of tyranny. Additionally, you can just fabricate a claim on it (I've done this recently to stop the Duchy of Jerusalem from getting out of hand... and promptly gave it to the Patriarch of Jerusalem, so I know he can't play the marriage game to get gigantic and cause me to risk losing said Patriarch).
 

Panzerschiffe

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Fewer direct vassals always seems appealing but these dukes just go crazy. Is there a way to get the revoke plots to show up? It seems like I don't always have too many choices in regards to revoking anything. Fabricating a claim seems like a pretty nice trick.
 

whosthebestcop

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If all of your Duke titles are agnatic and you only promote counts who are content and have no claims then handing out Duke titles or any titles will only help your empire.

They will only war because of intermarrying, a women coming to rule, and prior claims. The most important only hand out titles to people with no claims.

If you don't have enough random courtiers then just invite a Holy Man for 5 piety and make him the count/duke.
 

unmerged(463186)

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I have found that the best thing to do with Duchies is to give them to fellow dynasty members. Let me give some purely anecdotal evidence to support this ('cause I know y'all love stories!).

Now, this may have been sheer luck, but I started a game from the earliest start date as the Duchy of Alexandria. I slowly fought my way up the sibling tree until I was the favored heir (not as easy as it sounds - my brothers were having a lot of wars, and one of them eventually owned the Duchy of Jerusalem and Damietta). I married an Egyptian lady with some pretty great stats. Unbeknownst to me, the patch allows Shi'a to marry Miaphysite. Guess what? Wife was Miaphysite and educating the crap out of my kids.

Yes, this was a lack of forethought on my part. No big deal. I commit to my mistake - my next generation will be Miaphysite. Gosh darn it, this WILL be an interesting and memorable game! And so begins a series of internal wars to make sure that my son's succession will go smoothly, which largely involves removing my brothers from their positions as dukes, and instead installing non-zealous family members with no claims.

When my Sultan finally kicks the bucket, my kingdom was surprisingly stable. I had to give away a king title to avoid a massive civil war with the Arabian territories, since I figured my king would not have time to properly deal with that territory (turned out I was right). But, despite only having Cairo and Damietta as my demense, no dukes flipped out at me.

What I would suggest, OP, is that you take the time (and it can be a bit tedious, but worth it in the long run) to revoke duchies and install your own family as the dukes. To make them even happier, implement elective succession; no matter who gets voted in, they are of your dynasty. HOWEVER, make sure you control the largest duchies personally! While duke of your dynasty will largely be happier than dukes of another dynasty, I find that they can still be antsy during succession. Keep your king's age in mind, and maybe try to stray away from wars in advanced age. Otherwise, opportunistic dukes might very well decide to pounce on a new king during a succession while your troops are off fighting a war.

Now, I don't really know the exact size of your kingdom, but if you really are having this much trouble with dukes warring each other (Despite medium crown authority? How odd!), then you may very well be too weak in relation to them. About how large is your army? How large is the army of this double duke? Even if dukes only have, oh, half of your personal levy strength, I find that the AI thinks they deserve to be Emperor of the Multiverse, which will lead to massive headaches for the player.

tldr: Duchies are good, but you need to know when to give them - early vassal dukedoms can be dangerous!
 

Panzerschiffe

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I currently have a 1.5k retinue and a 3.5k levy. My vassals have 6k total. How do I see the super Duke's total levy?
I'm not having any problems beating the tar out of them it's just that they seem to go out of their way to destroy everything I've built. Now this super duke controls half of Scotland and I'm guessing he's going to start shaking things up. He doesn't have a claim on anything right now but I also can't revoke anything via plots.

I never give land to dynasty members. I like to control their children and educate the ones I want. If I land them, I lose control of them and they could rebel for no reason...which dynasty members always seem to do.
 

Yenzen

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whosthebestcop

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I have found that the best thing to do with Duchies is to give them to fellow dynasty members. Let me give some purely anecdotal evidence to support this ('cause I know y'all love stories!).

Now, this may have been sheer luck, but I started a game from the earliest start date as the Duchy of Alexandria.

Landing family members for Muslims is different. For Christians/Catholics it is almost never a good idea ever.
 

unmerged(463186)

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Landing family members for Muslims is different. For Christians/Catholics it is almost never a good idea ever.

Everyone was Miaphysite at that point. I've had no problems. Again, it is only anecdotal evidence - I might just be lucky. There is a mixture of ambitious and content dukes, FYI.

I currently have a 1.5k retinue and a 3.5k levy. My vassals have 6k total. How do I see the super Duke's total levy?
I'm not having any problems beating the tar out of them it's just that they seem to go out of their way to destroy everything I've built. Now this super duke controls half of Scotland and I'm guessing he's going to start shaking things up. He doesn't have a claim on anything right now but I also can't revoke anything via plots.

I never give land to dynasty members. I like to control their children and educate the ones I want. If I land them, I lose control of them and they could rebel for no reason...which dynasty members always seem to do.

I believe the realm view (go to your character screen, it is one of three views - I think dynasty, family tree, and realm, though I am not 100% sure on the order/names) will show your vassals levies as a percentage of your own.