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DominusNovus

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The Civ6 example is actually kind of interesting because it cleverly avoids the exact pitfall that Victoria fell into. Both Civilization 6 and Victoria III include two types of maps, without really biasing their UIs too hard towards either one. I think Civ6 is actually more biased in this way where thematically it all gets tied together more nicely in isometric mode, which is why strategic mode looks a bit wonky. Civ6's artistic style just happens to work out such that strategic mode ends up looking a bit off*. But both still independently work well as a cohesive whole for whoever may like either. The key however is that no matter which you like, both are available discretely from each other. Nobody is ever forced to use a map they dislike. It also means if performance is a concern you can cleanly pick strategic mode with no concern. I can 100% confirm this matters; my girlfriend's computer can barely handle Civ6 so the difference is very noticeable between the two types.

Victoria III also has two map types, with its living terrain map and its paper map. But unlike Civ6 it doesn't have a toggle between them. They're just both there at the same time. All you have to do is change your zoom. So you can't choose to stay in one theme or the other; you're saddled with both, so Vic's map looks bad half the time no matter which type you prefer and if performance is a concern you can't just choose to be in the faster one because there aren't two distinct modes; you're have to consciously not zoom in.

Honestly, I'd say just take a page out of Civ's book and make it a toggle. There's a lot of people who clearly do not care whatsoever about the living map. Personally, the most I want my map to be alive is to have dots on my paper map get bigger as my cities are more urbanized (analogously, imagine if in HoI4 you could see some cities grow from one victory point type to another) but I don't need trains or boats or whatever. There are also clearly people who do like it and have no issue with the performance implications of it and I don't have anything against their preferences. We're different people who like different things. So let's just stop forcing these two factions to mingle? Paradox can have a strongly performing paper map that's dead, and a living map whose performance is worse but has all the fancy graphics that they're playing around with.

*I want to be clear, I have no issue with stylization. I tend to like stylization more than not; my favorite character portraits of all Paradox games I've played are from HoI4, where they are specifically more stylized in that they look like paintings rather than the actual people. One of the biggest failures imo of Paradox's 3D models and the recent push to use them more is that they just end up looking like...well, bad lifelike models. A model that's supposed to look like the real thing has to be extremely high fidelity in order to not fall into the uncanny valley; if you're not willing to go the extra mile on that, then having good art that's clearly just art is way better. The barrier to looking acceptable to the eye is much lower because your brain doesn't try to flag it as a person, just as a picture. Besides being why I dislike the 3D models so much, this is also why I like the paper map so much. The styling of it is gorgeous.

Basically my view, elaborated.

Speaking of HOI4, lets not forget that Paradox made noises about not including NATO counters as an option, forcing players to use the “giant CGI soldier” models. I’d be quite interested to know how many players toggle on NATO counters and never turn them off.
 
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Xeiki

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Honestly, I'd say just take a page out of Civ's book and make it a toggle.
Yes please! Especially since the Victorian Era featured some astonishingly beautiful hand-drawn maps. I really don't care about the living map at all - it's nice to look at in some parts, sure, but I wouldn't be sad if I never *had* to look at it. Plus in parts, it does not look all that good. Especially the coastlines look wonky on certain zoom levels.
 
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Skuchney

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Anyone else experience massive lag from trade routes? Not just the trade menu or whatever it is, but the sheer volume of trade routes in a 1bn gpd + country with maxed out ports, trading in and out to manipulate market prices etc. I had my suspicion trade was slowing my game after I installed a mod to make AI mange their economies better, and performance got worse sooner. So tested swapping to isolationist and all lag immediately stopped.

I haven't really wanted to play since, because I feel like after 50+ years my game will stop being enjoyable unless I stop growing the economy, but there isn't really much else in the game other than economy, because diplomacy and warfare are incredibly limited, random and/or buggy.

If anyone has any fixes / mod suggestions to fix the trade lag issue I am all ears. I would like to be able to play, but feel like I can't, its so demotivating.
 

Ir0nSlug

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Aug 24, 2021
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Anyone else experience massive lag from trade routes? Not just the trade menu or whatever it is, but the sheer volume of trade routes in a 1bn gpd + country with maxed out ports, trading in and out to manipulate market prices etc. I had my suspicion trade was slowing my game after I installed a mod to make AI mange their economies better, and performance got worse sooner. So tested swapping to isolationist and all lag immediately stopped.

I haven't really wanted to play since, because I feel like after 50+ years my game will stop being enjoyable unless I stop growing the economy, but there isn't really much else in the game other than economy, because diplomacy and warfare are incredibly limited, random and/or buggy.

If anyone has any fixes / mod suggestions to fix the trade lag issue I am all ears. I would like to be able to play, but feel like I can't, its so demotivating.
Well, the biased formula for trade profitability "artificially" inflate the number and size of trade routes, but I don't think it can be modded. You will have to wait for a possible formula revision by Paradox.

The only mod I know about is one that removes the graphical representation of trade routes, it helps with lag on the trade view but I don't know it it has any effect out of it as I am lucky enough not to endure lags.

 

Skuchney

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Well, the biased formula for trade profitability "artificially" inflate the number and size of trade routes, but I don't think it can be modded. You will have to wait for a possible formula revision by Paradox.

The only mod I know about is one that removes the graphical representation of trade routes, it helps with lag on the trade view but I don't know it it has any effect out of it as I am lucky enough not to endure lags.

Thank you very much for your response. Yeah I already tried that mod, and felt no difference. I am fairly certain my issue is the number of trade routes and their calculations, it lags the worst when first creating them, especially if there are already a lot and/or I have clicked a lot of new routes, but then it will persist after and the game noticeably slows down and lags consistently when I have heaps of trade routes going. Isolationism immediately ends the lag.

I see everyone all over the net talking about pops being the cause of the issue, but I haven't seen anyone really talk about the trade lag I have experienced. I haven't even experienced a slow down caused by pops. Is the trade lag not a thing for other people?
 

Ir0nSlug

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Aug 24, 2021
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Thank you very much for your response. Yeah I already tried that mod, and felt no difference. I am fairly certain my issue is the number of trade routes and their calculations, it lags the worst when first creating them, especially if there are already a lot and/or I have clicked a lot of new routes, but then it will persist after and the game noticeably slows down and lags consistently when I have heaps of trade routes going. Isolationism immediately ends the lag.

I see everyone all over the net talking about pops being the cause of the issue, but I haven't seen anyone really talk about the trade lag I have experienced. I haven't even experienced a slow down caused by pops. Is the trade lag not a thing for other people?
Can't help you on that, but I'm not saying that the lag doesn't exist, I'm lucky enough to have a beast of a computer that allows me to play until 1936 without any lag. My actual issue is not getting bored after 1880-1900.
 

Skuchney

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Can't help you on that, but I'm not saying that the lag doesn't exist, I'm lucky enough to have a beast of a computer that allows me to play until 1936 without any lag. My actual issue is not getting bored after 1880-1900.
That actually gives me hope. I had considered my computer might play a role, as it is getting on in its years, but so many others experienced lag (some of which claimed to have good computers), and this is the only game I've had issues with. So I wasn't sure upgrading would help much. Might look into an upgrade in the new year.

The game really does have some solid potential if a few major kinks are ironed out. I did not expect an economics simulator to be this enjoyable.
 
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Ir0nSlug

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Aug 24, 2021
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That actually gives me hope. I had considered my computer might play a role, as it is getting on in its years, but so many others experienced lag (some of which claimed to have good computers), and this is the only game I've had issues with. So I wasn't sure upgrading would help much. Might look into an upgrade in the new year.

The game really does have some solid potential if a few major kinks are ironed out. I did not expect an economics simulator to be this enjoyable.
The game has been reportedly very heavy on RAM consumption, I'd say 16gb is the least (it's what I have) and probably the cheapest way to get some improvement. The next but much more expensive step would be the CPU, since it's the gameplay bottleneck and there are plenty of mods to decrease the GPU load.
 

Skuchney

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The game has been reportedly very heavy on RAM consumption, I'd say 16gb is the least (it's what I have) and probably the cheapest way to get some improvement. The next but much more expensive step would be the CPU, since it's the gameplay bottleneck and there are plenty of mods to decrease the GPU load.

Yeah I have 16 GB ram on this PC, it's about 5 years old now, so the CPU and GPU are well out of date. Still, it has handled most things well enough that I have had no reason to get a new one apart from the desire to have a new toy that I dont need because go brrrrr. Now I might have a reason.
 

Ir0nSlug

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Yeah I have 16 GB ram on this PC, it's about 5 years old now, so the CPU and GPU are well out of date. Still, it has handled most things well enough that I have had no reason to get a new one apart from the desire to have a new toy that I dont need because go brrrrr. Now I might have a reason.
New toy that go brrrr is reason enough imo, no-one bat an eye at people that want new car/house/partner that go brrrr. And it's less expensive than those. That you need to upgrade not to play a brand new AAAA but a gsg of all games is funny tho.