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Those extra provinces should not noticeably impact game speed from the map itself. Indirectly though, more provinces might lead to more nations and more events and so on.Twoflower said:
Well most of the areas i'd like to see added with provinces could definatly use this increase as it would mean less need to worry about using up ids, ie same idea as with the tag issue.Mad King James said:
So an increase in province IDs...? As long as NA gets rid of some of that PTI, and the east coast is given a few new provinces I'll be happy 
And I'm glad someone's interested in redrawing old ones.
Last request would be to stick a new provicne in between Artois and Brabant. I'm so damn tired of fighting over Artois. Actually we could shrink Calais, then actually make a real Artois province, and then make a Hainault province So 1 more, for Hainault, shrink Calais, and shift Artois (and prolly shrink too).
And I'm glad someone's interested in redrawing old ones.
Last request would be to stick a new provicne in between Artois and Brabant. I'm so damn tired of fighting over Artois. Actually we could shrink Calais, then actually make a real Artois province, and then make a Hainault province
So 1 more, for Hainault, shrink Calais, and shift Artois (and prolly shrink too). 
It's perhaps be wise to first agree to a rough division of the new ids between the continents/area, keeping a reserve, and determining how many ids may be got from merging some sea-zones & rivers.
Only then actual redrawing of the maps should be debated among seperate threads.
It's be cool to to have a definition of what a province depicts.
Only then actual redrawing of the maps should be debated among seperate threads.
It's be cool to to have a definition of what a province depicts.
true true. It'd be ideal to make a custom map for AGCEEP, but that really depends on some dedicated AGCEEPers. In the meantime, my bet is that the fight will likely be settled with the input of many many more than simple and humble AGCEEPers (aka the whole EU2 forum...).
ribbon22 said:
I'm seriously doubting that though...given that the AGCEEP with an enhanced focus on ROTW regions doesn't exactly mesh with the thoughts of the vanilla MP community, and the wants of individuals for various historical provinces that do little to enhance gameplay, I find it hard to believe that there will ultimately be *one* new map.
I'm suspecting this as well.Garbon said:
BTW what does ROTW mean?
Does any of the AGCEEP crew really want 50 or more new mainland european provinces? I don't. It seems to me that the people who want lots of new european provinces are MP palyers. I'm curious how the AGCEEP community feels about which provinces ought and ought not to be added to the mods. I'm also debating whether or not to throw in with the AGCEEP on this or whether it's really just more worth my while to make my own map. I for one don't really want to go through the effort of trying to convince alot of people about the importance of such and such a new province if it's just less hassle to do this on my own.
However if we really do have very similar views perhaps it would be better to pool our knowledge on the matter together.
Can someone give me a rough estimate of just what the work on map adding is going to be like? I got a programmer friend who loves nothing better than helping me figure this kind of stuff out but I'd like to know roughly how much effort I'd be asking them for.
Not 50 perhaps, but quite a few should definitely be added in Europe. We badly need provinces like Slesvik, Trier, Hainault and Slavonia, to name some.idontlikeforms said:
Well I personally am in favor of adding european provinces that fix valid gameplay problems. What I don't want is to add them just because historically there were really 2 "provinces" in one EU2 province and wouldn't it be nice if my favorite country could have all of it's historic provinces be represented individually.Twoflower said:
For example with Portugal, I can understand the desire for 5 mainalnd provinces to balance MP games but a SP game with 2 more mainland provinces adds nothing desireable to the game. In fact it will hurt a Portuguese AI by slowing his tech and making losing wars between 2 AIs last even longer. Consequently I don't really think for an SP game it's worthwhile to split those 3 Portuguese mainland provinces up further. Would we then split up all kinds of other european provinces too for no gameplay reason just because it's historically neater?
Although some may not know the history of the ROTW as well as some of us and can't think of just what is so desperately needed outside of europe, I can, and don't doubt that filling up that 400 and maybe some more extras from removing or combining current provinces that are uneeded, will actually happen pretty quickly. Also I'm inclined to believe that having a much fuller map with less PTI and alot more happening outside of europe actually makes for much better replay value than just a vaster europe.
Where do all you AGCEEP regulars who will most likely contribute to an "AGCEEP map," assuming one is made, stand on this issue?
You won't need to know about programming to make a new map. You need Photoshop skills and an understanding of the various layers that go into the EU2 map.idontlikeforms said:
There will always be discussions about historical aspects versus gameplay, and SP versus MP. You can expect a whole spectrum of opinion as usualidontlikeforms said:
For it to work out smoothly IMHO, we've got to have one person with an objective viewpoint (and some patience) redoing the map one piece at a time. Each change should be discussed in the regional thread and map changes submitted along with the corresponding adjustments to the db and event files. Overall control of how many provinces each area gets can be discussed in this thread.
I figured this but he still likes this kind of stuff and likes figuring it out. My point being that even though I am relatively ignorant on this matter at present it won't be too difficult for me to change that. Does making a new map take a ridiculous amount of time or is it fairly simple? Just want to know for a rough estimate time consumptionwise.WiSK said:
All of this may very well be true but my point is if most the AGCEEPers, particularly the HC members are thinking more or less along the lines that I am already AND it will be extremeley time consuming for me to make a new map myself, it may actually be worth my while to cooperate as best I can and except the fact that a few provinces I want may be rejected. However if this is not the case then I could just start thinking of how to go about making a map myself. Do my enquiries make sense now?WiSK said:There will always be discussions about historical aspects versus gameplay, and SP versus MP. You can expect a whole spectrum of opinion as usual
For it to work out smoothly IMHO, we've got to have one person with an objective viewpoint (and some patience) redoing the map one piece at a time. Each change should be discussed in the regional thread and map changes submitted along with the corresponding adjustments to the db and event files. Overall control of how many provinces each area gets can be discussed in this thread.
Well, I'm not an AGCEEP regular...
But, quite some time ago, I did participate in an AGC:Africa thread, and in my opinion, two things quickly rose to prominence (at least in my imagination) as the major problems. First, there was the lack of tags (now fixed). Second, there was the problem that the map was all topsy turvy. Names were nowhere near where they should have been, the provinces didn't correspond at all to political boundaries (Dahomey is a prime example), and finally, important states such as Bornu were located deep in PTI.
This can now be fixed. Most people in the big 'new provinces' thread seem interested in either thier own nation, or in adding more provinces to Japan and China. However, I feel that for those who care about the rest of the world, map-editing is a wonderful thing to fix such places as Africa, Central Asia, Anatolia, the whole Middle East, and any other place where the current map is an obstruction to making historical mods.
I think this opportunity should be taken advatage of, and is more important than adding a zillion provinces to Europe. I hear MKJ is redrawing the entire map. I hope he remembers to keep some provinces for these areas.
But, quite some time ago, I did participate in an AGC:Africa thread, and in my opinion, two things quickly rose to prominence (at least in my imagination) as the major problems. First, there was the lack of tags (now fixed). Second, there was the problem that the map was all topsy turvy. Names were nowhere near where they should have been, the provinces didn't correspond at all to political boundaries (Dahomey is a prime example), and finally, important states such as Bornu were located deep in PTI.
This can now be fixed. Most people in the big 'new provinces' thread seem interested in either thier own nation, or in adding more provinces to Japan and China. However, I feel that for those who care about the rest of the world, map-editing is a wonderful thing to fix such places as Africa, Central Asia, Anatolia, the whole Middle East, and any other place where the current map is an obstruction to making historical mods.
I think this opportunity should be taken advatage of, and is more important than adding a zillion provinces to Europe. I hear MKJ is redrawing the entire map. I hope he remembers to keep some provinces for these areas.
James Fox said:
You really shouldn't worry as far as MKJ is concerned. He always suggested more elaborate changes (especially for Africa) then I ever did (as I was always trying to skimp on tags to get proposals approved). But yeah the concerns you raise are why I feel that there will ultimately be a split in the map for the vanilla and for the AGCEEP.../why shouldn't there be as we apparently have different aims/ideas?
He did iberian penesula...he may have done others. He added like 4 provinces he thought should be there and the placement of them.James Fox said:
As to Portugal...for the MP community I can understand the reasoning behind their request. However, we also haveto think about the AI, as IDLF said. IMO the best would be to compromise and give Portugal 1 more mainland province, Malderia and Azones and start them off with the latter two.
As for the whole of Europe, i think its mostly about changing province shape and sizes, with only a few additions, mostly in HRE. But even so atleast in the AGCEEP the most liberal estimates on new provinces for Europe were 20-25 i've seen.
So we should really be working on this now as he says.WISK said:
It can take a lot of time to learn how to use Photoshop properly. To make the borders have that nice ridge effect and the inside of the province to have an inner glow. Etcetera. So really the time you spend depends on the quality you want to achieve. If you want to move or add just a couple of things then an evening's work might be enough. To make a whole new map, you could be busy for weeks, but eventually you would get proficient and things would move quicker.idontlikeforms said:
Yes they do, and sorry to be so vague with the answer, but it's like asking how long it would take to make your own mod. Best thing is to try it out yourself: add Madiera and see how long that takes you (or your friend).idontlikeforms said:
I've been working already for some time.
Mind you, I haven't asked anyone's opinion on anything, but that's just me
Mind you, I haven't asked anyone's opinion on anything, but that's just me
Mad King James said:Mind you, I haven't asked anyone's opinion on anything, but that's just me
Yea...we've generally got a hang of the routine by now